The Real Problem with Parsers

[KeluBehemoth]

Got a pretty good point.

There's virtually NO need for parsers outside of end game raids. Putting it in your average 24 man or Daily roulette PUG is just harmful.

I do wish they would allow you to talk about parsers though because if you really are intent on clearing something in PF and somebody just isn't cutting it you could atleast give them pointers.

Like today in a Shiva pony farm a guy was just casually saying the BLM was doing 300 DPS. We were clearing fine. I was leader. Didn't kick. First off his parser was probably inaccurate because we were killing very fast and second. It doesn't matter.

[sackm]

wrong. those are actually the areas where parsers are needed the most, because that content is run way more often than endgame raids. 24mans in particular take WAY longer than they should because half the damn alliance is doing 150 dps when they should be doing 400.

[Elazu]

Got a pretty good point.

There's virtually NO need for parsers outside of end game raids. Putting it in your average 24 man or Daily roulette PUG is just harmful.

Not putting a parser in is actually harmful.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Maybe you're right, but can you argue that they would be a very useful tool for many to improve? I mean, at its most basic, you have players who perform well and know how/why they perform well, players who don't and don't know how/why, and players who simply don't care. . . 2 of those categories would remain largely unaffected by parser implementation. But those stuck in that very grey area in the middle - not knowing how or why they don't do well - would benefit GREATLY.

Thing is, you can give anyone all the tools necessary to improve, and if they don't, it's purely on them alone. However the popular argument is that parsers are merely a shaming tool, and this is just not accurate. That would be like claiming fault with taking piano lessons when I can play by ear but can't read music. The larger majority of the playerbase can play by ear or merely repeat what they've seen/done, but it's only when you begin to not only see but understand just what you're doing and how well you're doing it do you truly improve.

So the idea that parsers aren't needed outside raids essentially supports the skill divide/gap between players (this in itself often leading to the old casual/elite nonsense). Not everyone is going to become Elton John, but we can all learn to play the piano better, even outside of raids.

[Astral145]

What the devs should implement instead is an individual parser meaning you cant see other players parsers which I agree with. DCUO (F2P btw) finally implemented an individual parser a few months ago.

What the DCUO devs did was use the chat battle log to calculate all your damage done in a set time then show you your Damage Per Second, crit %'s, highest hit and total damage done in a set amount of time. The best part was you could set the time you want to see your current parser like every 30 secs, 60 secs or when you stopped doing battle. This allowed each individual to set goals like perfecting your opener and see how you were contributing to the fight..

You can even use this on a dummy to test out new load outs and rotations.

By using the chat battle log as a parser allowed the devs to implement this to all platforms ps3, ps4, pc...ect. PS3 and PS4 players did not suffer through any issues regarding this type of parser on DCUO so there is no reason as to why the FFXIV devs couldn't implement this into FFXIV

I haven't heard of any negative feed backs on the DCUO forums regarding the new parsers. All I read were praises and how thankful the community was for what the devs did.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Maybe you're right, but can you argue that they would be a very useful tool for many to improve?

You can also argue the contrary. In my previous post I mentioned it may motivate people to improve more. With the current situation, parsers are technically against the ToS, but considered as "tolerated" as long the GMs don't find out about it. You can talk about it with anyone, but if someone decides to report you for displaying parse results, then we get the exact opposite of the coin: a witch hunt for those who use parsers.

I'm not saying your list is wrong, but i believe the middle area would be players being afraid to use parsers, rather than not wanting to use them

[karateorangutang]

I'm gonna invest in ConAgra stock soon because of all the Orville Redenbacher popcorn i'm gonna need if they ever do implement a parser.

God I hope they do so I can watch this....

[Malevicton]

I like how you slipped in an accusation of strawmanning while strawmanning. Someone else possibly being worse doesn't make you blameless.

If you're gonna make a post with no intention of it being relevant, don't get salty about being called out for irrelevant posts.

It was always off topic. Nothing's changed except you don't wanna stay focused on something that you can't justify.

[Viridiana]

Your quite apparent lack of ability to understand the word selfish is what made me quit reading, you want a strawman argument go back and look at all your posts.

Having spent quite a few pages arguing with Aiselia, I don't recall any strawman arguments (aside from arguably that hyperbole disagreement). And nothing you go on to mention in your post would be a strawman, either.

I like how you slipped in an accusation of strawmanning while strawmanning.

Again, not seeing anywhere where he was strawmanning. Care to explain where he attacked a position that was never advanced? Because I'm not seeing it off-hand...

[Malevicton]

Again, not seeing anywhere where he was strawmanning. Care to explain where he attacked a position that was never advanced? Because I'm not seeing it off-hand...

Practically the whole post? Instead of supporting his own argument he just started pointing out problem's with a something completely unrelated, as though that would support his position. Straw manning doesn't necessarily need to be something that was never said; it can just be something irrelevant to the topic at hand. The topic was how his post was relevant, and his argument was that someone else's was less relevant. That doesn't make his post any more relevant.

It's been his go-to tactic in this thread. Attack other people's positions, then claim he can't be wrong because he never had a position. How many times now has he said something like "lol I never said I was against parsers, show me in my posts where I said that, I just said [goes on to say a bunch of stuff that's obviously against parsers, while carefully avoiding explicitly taking a position]"? Spoiler, it's happened a lot.

more extreme example: A literary theorist claimed earlier today that Pride and Prejudice doesn't have any merit in its use of literary devices, but I think they were just trying to rationalize their personal dislike by making unsupportable claims. So clearly I'm right about parsers, and about strawmanning.