MCH and Self-Healing

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Currently, DRG, NIN, and BRD can cross class MNK's Second Wind. BLMs can cross class Physick from SCH/SMN, and even all 3 tank classes have some form of self-healing. I've noted it many times, but Machinists are the only job that currently has no form of self heals.

This is not a complaint thread, and not having it does not completely ruin the job for me. I still main it and enjoy it. But I would like to know if SE is aware of this, and more importantly, do they plan to address/change it? The easy answer would be to make exception for MCH and allow Second Wind to be cross-classed, but that could easily open the "why doesn't MY job also get a third cross class option?" can of worms. That aside, I would very much love an official response on the subject.

The job performs fine as it is, but having access to a on-the-spot self heal (with a decent cooldown, of course) would ALWAYS be welcome for that moment's misstep, that "I was out of that!"-But lag says otherwise aoe, when Healer-chan is overtasked or perhaps went picking flowers/their nose, or is licking the window for buffs, or my personal favorite, the RNG Mechanical Jackpot (Getting rayed by the boss in A4 while also getting targeted by the sniper bits or soaking orbs is kind of a fun "living on the edge" moment. Don't you think?)

So, Machinists; No Self Heals. Oversight? Intentional? Plans to change that?

[Amiaze]

Wait -- Lace Valeria, is that you?!

And I do agree. Especially considering we're completely proc-based and rely on a turret stance. It seems to be the norm to say that MCHs have low DPS, but I wonder how much of that is actually attributed to having to stop a cast and run for our lives half the time. I spent the last 10% of my last Neverreap final boss fight doing exactly that. I think I pulled off two shots on him.

[Sleigh]

It is strange that they failed to give MCH any form of survivability. It's something like this:

Survivable AF tier:

DRG gets Second Wind, Keen Flurry, mega HP, high DEF and normal MDEF, and even takes less during B4B than others. Can CC Foresight if needed/desired. Arguably multiple mobility options that may save you from being in an AoE (rare but has happened I guess).
BLM gets Manaward, Manawall, and Aetherial Manipulation. Arguably the tankiest DPS, it's DRG or BLM. High MDEF, low DEF, which is better for raids than medium or high DEF and medium MDEF.

Probably not gonna die unless healers are behind or you dun goofed, tier:

MNK gets enhanced Second Wind, Fist of Earth if needed, and can CC Keen Flurry (we had some of our physical DPS CC it for T12 and T13 because why not) and Foresight if needed/desired. Regular DEF and MDEF. Shoulder Tackle, see above.
NIN gets Shade Shift, Second Wind, and Shukuchi. Can CC Keen Flurry if needed/desired. The weakest against magic of the 3 melee, to be sure, but technically the second strongest against stuff like Prey or T13 Earthshakers.
BRD gets Second Wind, and can CC Keen Flurry if needed/desired. Regular DEF and MDEF.

Dang, hope heals are topping you off for mechanics when undergeared, tier:

SMN gets Physick (I guess? You'd never use it while a boss is attackable unless it's do or die) but at least it gets high MDEF.

First to die to Pepsiman Savage tier:

MCH gets ... well, nothing besides Keen Flurry if they want. So far in A1-4S that means A1S Prey and if you so choose to let DPS tank certain enemies in A2S. In fact they have normal MDEF so even though SMN and MCH both get roughly no tools for survival, they get hit harder by raid mechanics.

I'm actually not sure why some DPS get more or less survivability than others; BLM is a given, that's part of their tool set for attacking. DRG being the last to die otherwise over anyone else is strange, MCH getting absolutely nothing is strange, and half the cast being able to really super mitigate physical damage mechanics, rare as they are, while others have nothing, is a bit strange.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Renata! I didn't know you'd switched to Adamantoise!

As far as defensive buffs go, all MCH has is Keen Flurry. And believe me, that's NOT enough. A1S when you have Prey is proof of that, and I even have a few points in VIT for the extra HP and defense.

So it would seem that we're not only at a loss for self-heals, we generally have no damage mitigation of our own. Tsk tsk, SE. . .

[Aeliott]

I suppose you could argue Dismantle / Rend Mind....but even then it's a meager 5% reduction. Hmm, I wouldn't say it's a necessity to have though. Most dps have something but even then the cooldowns for such skills are pretty long except Fists of Earth - getting selected for unavoidable damage mechanics multiple times doesn't allow for things like Keen Flurry / Second Wind to be readily available. I always thought of it more as a luxury, with MNK and BLM getting a sweeter deal for having the most punishing buffs to lose.

[Greedalox]

I know I'll get hit for this, but isn't it okay that a class has an attribute that's different than every other one? Whether it be good or bad? I see a lot of complaining about *buzzword* homogenization of the classes, then see threads like this. I understand the importance of a self-heal, but does that necessarily mean that there might not be a different way around it instead of just... giving a self-heal?

[Saggo]

SMN gets Physick (I guess? You'd never use it while a boss is attackable unless it's do or die) but at least it gets high MDEF.

It's not even good for do or die at 60. It's so low that it won't save you if you're hit hard enough to need it (you're basically in the same boat before and after) and it's not worth the GCD if you're not in immediate danger. Physick needs something new when on SMN, otherwise it's a wasted hit bar slot.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Greedalox, you make a valid point. I did say that the job performs fine even without it, but it is the sole exception here. That really stands out, especially when you begin to weigh pros and cons of jobs entirely. And while the simplest answer (that is just opening up Second Wind to MCH) might not be the best one, it's a matter that really can't go unspoken.

We MCH lack a self-heal AND proper damage mitigation, and no amount of "support utility" can make up for simply just lacking survival tools for solo or high end, full party content. As it stands, that would technically make us MORE work for healers, which actually means LESS support utility.

Perhaps it's not an easy fix or a deeper balance issue? But all the same, it can't go unspoken when it's the ONE exception.

[Amiaze]

I know I'll get hit for this, but isn't it okay that a class has an attribute that's different than every other one? ... I understand the importance of a self-heal, but does that necessarily mean that there might not be a different way around it instead of just... giving a self-heal?

I wouldn't downvote a self-heal for MCH, but to be fair, we do have plenty of ways to knock enemies away from us and keep them in place if we need some space. Second Wind or anything similar to it would be great to help correct mistakes but, honestly, there won't be many times that you'll need it outside of a dungeon. There will normally be a healer around anyway.

Perhaps increasing MCH's overall vitality by a small percentage (say, 3%) would correct the imbalance?

Renata! I didn't know you'd switched to Adamantoise!

I did! I'll have to use the alt I have on Goblin to get into contact with you now.

[Sunako]

Isnt is same for summoners? Physick heal probably 4% of your max hp and more you get gear less it heal compared your max hp. It is worth waste your 2.5sec global for it? Second wind is easy use because it is no dps loss for you because it is offglobal. Energy drain heal 500 - 1k depend on crit, but using it is pretty big dps loss because fester can do 100% more damage.