So, pretty dead lately....

[TheUltimate3]

The onus is on SE to create and implement ideas to keep people amused. I'm just spitballing here. Ultimately people are looking for something to work towards that isn't a horrific grind of stuff they've already run a million times (see: the relic, which didn't have a single unique fight/dungeon aside from Chimera/Hydra).

And that is the big issue. How to make a grind that doesn't feel like a grind, because lets face it, there is no way you can make content that lasts x amount of months and make it not a grind. This is an old genre and quite frankly I don't think that's possible to do anymore. The old grinds people have done in FXI would probably feel like horrendous grinds if implemented today. The old grinds I did do in my early WoW days I was very much aware were grinds.

And I personally don't care for auxiliary procs and effects. Light knows I don't want to have to spam a dungeon for a specific piece of gear that will be required for something.

[Glasya]

This already exists. Your problem is that you don't like the variety that has been offered.

This has been debunked umpteen fucking times already.
After reaching 60 and hitting your stride, besides Alex Savage and Esoterics capping there is literally no other form of valid Battlecraft progression. Crafting is its own thing and is so exclusive, limited in utility and disproportionately expensive it doesn't factor in here besides for the likes of Lucrezia and Elysium.

And that is the big issue. How to make a grind that doesn't feel like a grind, because lets face it, there is no way you can make content that lasts x amount of months and make it not a grind.

Again, this is an issue SE needs to resolve.
And when I mentioned gear procs and whatnot those should ideally be available through means other than dungeons. Like Gold Saucer gear for example. Say there's "Godbert's Gloves of Healing" that give "+10% HP restored when using Cure II/Adloquiem/Benefic II". Make them cost 150,000 MGP, add in the aforementioned Battle Arena/combat GATEs and BAM, there's something for WHM and AST-players to do in their spare time.

[Croisciento]

My static blew up few days ago mainly because they found nothing has changed at all in the expansion. And to be honest yes. Dailies, run expert roulette once a day then log in for raids and that's it. Only things remaining (for me at least) is leveling up other classes but after having 5 to 60 I can't get the motivation to grind the Vault 12 times to get two levels. Some people will tell me there's still crafting and gathering but it's not big of a deal for me... Moreover when I see what they did with scrips. We were on A3 with my static and weirdly I'm getting burned out quicker than before, maybe because I have to run at least 5 times each floor every week to get my loot in rollface difficulty.

I had huge expectations for the expansion but for me it doesn't feel like one. In 3.1 they'll add a new 24 man raid and in 3.2 new 8 man raid and so on, it's been the same since the game came out and I thought it would be at least slightly different for raiders. It just feel like a bigger patch but not an expansion. Playing for 2 years but it's hard to stay entertained when only the shape changed throughout the years. People who quit once because reasons will always quit because the game hasn't change its formula.

[Ashkendor]

Xatsh, your listed main class is PLD. Do you play it often? How do you enjoy the variety of being useless dead weight in Alexander?

What does this even have to do with anything that they said? I mean, since your main is listed as Dragoon we mayaswell ask you how you enjoy the variety of floors that Heavensward brought you to tank. :P

Paladin has problems. We know this. Do we really need to bring it up in unrelated threads?

Again, this is an issue SE needs to resolve.
And when I mentioned gear procs and whatnot those should ideally be available through means other than dungeons. Like Gold Saucer gear for example. Say there's "Godbert's Gloves of Healing" that give "+10% HP restored when using Cure II/Adloquiem/Benefic II". Make them cost 150,000 MGP, add in the aforementioned Battle Arena/combat GATEs and BAM, there's something for WHM and AST-players to do in their spare time.

The only problem is that something like that would rapidly turn from "something to work toward in your spare time" to "something that has to be ground out so you don't get kicked from parties for not having it".

[Glasya]

The only problem is that something like that would rapidly turn from "something to work toward in your spare time" to "something that has to be ground out so you don't get kicked from parties for not having it".

Well you dial it in. Maybe remove the secondary stats or something.
Again, these are just ideas. But I'd argue that gear shouldn't just be thrown out once its iLv becomes outdated. There could and maybe should be gear yet released in Heavensward that, but virtue of its auxiliary effects or procs alone, renders it superior to the (solely) numerical bonuses of much higher ilv leveling gear in the next expansion.
And is there anything wrong with having certain pieces of gear be mandatory? In this context it's not like there are players without access to the Gold Saucer. If you aren't at a point to be working on content like that then you aren't at a point for it to be considered disadvantageous.

[Intaki]

Paladin has problems. We know this. Do we really need to bring it up in unrelated threads?

I was responding directly to the poster's assertion that imbalance is an acceptable price to pay for more "unique" class mechanics.

[TheUltimate3]

And is there anything wrong with having certain pieces of gear be mandatory? In this context it's not like there are players without access to the Gold Saucer. If you aren't at a point to be working on content like that then you aren't at a point for it to be considered disadvantageous.

If a piece of gear is mandatory, no matter where it comes from it has to be gotten. If someone where to hate GATEs with a passion unrivaled by the greatest star, but they needed the gloves from the Gold Saucer, then that guy is going to have to sit through a boring grind to get the item he needs, will complain about it endlessly, and once obtained never touch it again.

In short, its not about being unable to do it, it's about being forced to do it. Which I would have assumed, was counter to the whole "more things to do".

[Glasya]

I'm talking about "mandatory" in the sense of top-tier progression. If someone's in a midcore static progressing in Savage Alex with friends the gloves aren't going to make or break his performance relative to his raiding cohort.
Additionally if someone's bitching about having to do a grind that, at worst takes a couple days, he probably doesn't deserve a static slot. You can get 150K over a few weeks from Mini-cactpot alone, and if there's Battle Square/Combat GATEs and gear for other classes available he's clearly not doing this "grind" without his static members.

Fighting an enemy gauntlet with randomised handicaps together with friends for multiplicative MGP rewards. How is that something to complain about? It sounds fun.

[Obysuca]

I don't want to have to spam a dungeon for a specific piece of gear that will be required for something.

But see, then it'd give you more to do. Rather than get on, do 1 expert a day to cap by saturday and getting all 4 alex loot on tuesday, you could get on and go "I'll do expert, then get my alex loot, then work on getting X and Y pieces for whatever job." Sure, you can say it'd be a grind, but that sort of grinding feels more worth it in the end, rather than the current grind we have now of "Go get i200. Got the full set? Congratulations! That gear is junk now, here's i220!" I can bet you, a cure potency+10% hands would... hands down (pun intended) beat something of a little higher ilvl.

What does this even have to do with anything that they said? I mean, since your main is listed as Dragoon we mayaswell ask you how you enjoy the variety of floors that Heavensward brought you to tank. :P

I say this joke to a FC member all the time lol He complains how he's always coming drk for things and I told him that he can come drg if he wants. He complains how then we might get bad tanks and I told him that if he came drg, he'd still be tanking something :P

The only problem is that something like that would rapidly turn from "something to work toward in your spare time" to "something that has to be ground out so you don't get kicked from parties for not having it".

I know this is going to draw the torches and pitchforks back, but in a way, that would be a little better than what we have now if you think about it. Look at all the people who are 15-20 ilvl lower than the required amount to get into content and just slap on tank accessories and what not. In the end, we would have better geared people, so content could be cleared easier (if you don't count the just plain bad people who refuse to learn and just bash buttons).

I'm going to sound like a jerk for saying it, but if those people refused to farm that specific gear to gear themselves better, resulting in a better (not skillwise) job, which might end up causing the people who actually want to clear the content, to keep wiping because that person won't do a simple task, then they should be kicked. I can't tell you how many times I've been the nice guy and gave people way too many chances, then the pt ends up dying. Like Titan hm in 2.0 and anything thats not a faceroll fight, whenever the pt leader kicked the poor players and replaced them, we finally won.

It would teach people to pull their own weight and not expect to get carried through content, causing unneeded stress and wipes for people who want to clear it. Don't have X gear? Looks like you're not ready to tackle Y content. It would hopefully also teach some of these entitled kids that life doesn't always work out for them. If you don't have the stuff required to clear the fight, then you're not getting it done. Right now, all XIV teaches them is that if they do 1 dungeon a day, they can get full i200 and go get carried in a fight and learn nothing.

Additionally if someone's bitching about having to do a grind that, at worst takes a couple days, he probably doesn't deserve a static slot.

^ This. It feels like people these days whine and moan if they have to put in any amount of effort, when back in the day, if you had to grind for something, even if you didn't like it, you sucked it up and got it done.
The community back then also made grinds fun too.

Like XI's grind to 75, sure, you can say it was a long and boring grind, but you always had people to talk to. You could make jokes, have fun conversations and make friends all while doing it. It felt like less of a grind then.

Grinds today (like XIV) are all about not being social, not making friends, not having a good time. Look at leveling a new job. Practically no one even says "Hello!" anymore and only speaks up if someone screws up, sometimes they don't even do that and just leave.

[myahele]

I'm no raider, but I can imagine how doing Alex Savage can get very boring very quickly due to the fact that Alex Story mode drop useful i190 gear ....now that i190 is pretty useless since there is ESO tome gear and eventually Void Arc. And what do these have in common? Weekly lockouts!

You know what else I hate? In order to be able to upgrade (and dye) gear you have to then grind __ to get the necessary item. I am somewhat happy that you can now use tomes to buy the items needed for upgrades.

Here's hoping that they'll add more variety in terms of activity since they won't be doing the 3 dungeons/patch.