So, pretty dead lately....

[Obysuca]

With 3.1 trying something a little different by gutting one dungeon in exchange for adding some different content, now we have people crying over how expert dungeons are going to get boring again (because THREE new expert dungeons surely won't be boring to grind, am I right guys?)

It will be if the airship content ends up being a giant flop and dies down after a week or so >_>

What Yoshi P. actually does is make it possible for people who start the game at a later point to catch up...

The problem with that is, its not so much letting them catch up, its that it lets them catch up to fast, completely invalidating any work the people who actually played did. What's so wrong about joining a game 2 years after it's out and realizing you're behind? People these days seem to want to jump into a game 2, 4 or even 10 years after a game is out, hit lvl cap and instantly be in the best gear that everyone else who played for X amount of years is at. With how fast content is out dated too in XIV, right now, you could quit the game until 4.0, come back, do like 2-3 hours of MSQ, skip over everything else that came out because it was dead the next update after it was added and be right there with everyone who actually played through 3.1 - 3.X, which isn't right. Didn't play for a year? Expect to play through a year's worth of content to catch up and deal with it.

Tbh, if SE didn't out date the content the next update its out, it would also extend the life of content, so if someone new does join, they can actually see that content without having to skip over it because its dead. But you know, kids these days want everything right now, with little to no effort lol

What Yoshida is doing is making it so people with only 30-60 minutes of playtime a day are on par with people who spend 1+ hours.

>_> I miss when if someone only had 30-60 mins of playtime a day, they accepted the fact they either wouldn't get caught up or knew they had to put in more time to do so, rather than the people with more time being punished for playing more (too many short lockouts that tell you how much you can play) and the people with less time being rewarded by being handed the same gear for less time :/

[Welsper59]

>_> I miss when if someone only had 30-60 mins of playtime a day, they accepted the fact they either wouldn't get caught up or knew they had to put in more time to do so, rather than the people with more time being punished for playing more (too many short lockouts that tell you how much you can play) and the people with less time being rewarded by being handed the same gear for less time :/

I get what you're saying, but "punished" is hardly ever correctly used here. Stop playing or pretending to be a victim when there literally is none. When you say "punished", you're implying that they are taking something away (literally and/or figuratively) from you and, through this action, is causing harm to you in some way. If something like lockouts is causing you actual harm, please seek help or learn to manage yourself responsibly. If it is not causing actual harm, stop pretending to be a victim with that "punished" crap.

Having more time to play the game only means you have more time to play the game for what is available to you. That's all. It's quite simple. If I were to believe what you say about having more time in this game, that would mean I'd be punished through the ability to do dungeons, chat with friends, level classes/jobs, craft/gather, work on housing layouts and gardening, work on glamour, etc. I'd love to learn how people with less time are able to do all the things I do with more time, as I'm apparently being punished for being this way.

[Obysuca]

I'd love to learn how people with less time are able to do all the things I do with more time, as I'm apparently being punished for being this way.

45 mins a day and you cap eso by Saturday / can get all 4 alex look in an hour >_> Leveling/high lvl roulette take 5-10 mins to get into and under 20 to clear, most dungeons 51+ only take ~10 mins to get into, so you can still level to 60 with only playing an hour a day. That's how they're doing all the things with less time. They can gear up and get the same gear as you for 1/10th the time/effort you put in, which isn't right.

When you say "punished", you're implying that they are taking something away (literally and/or figuratively) from you and, through this action, is causing harm to you in some way.

And "punished" doesn't always mean actual harm. People with more time are being punished for playing more because once they cap alex/eso/scrips, theres nothing else to do until Tuesday, even if they want to keep playing.

And yes, they are "taking something away". They're taking the ability for people to stay entertained. They're taking away the chance to actually gear yourself in more possible ways / more jobs, rather than forcing you to play how they want you to play.
If someone wants to grind out eso/alex loot for all their jobs and has the time to do so, they should be allowed to. Sure, you can say they'll run out of things to do and get bored, but that's also the fault of SE for adding a tiny amount of content and expecting it to keep people entertained for 4-5 months, when it doesn't.
How would you like it if there was something you enjoyed doing and could do it for hours, but after 40 mins of doing it, someone comes out and tells you that you can't do it anymore, even though you have the time to continue to do it? That's pretty much what XIV's like now for people who play more than an hour a day.

weekly caps for example are bad design and a proof that your mmo lacks endgame stuff to do hence why you have to limit your players by such caps. daoc didnt have weekly caps on anything. aoc didnt have weekly caps either. it had only raid ids but it needed those since raiddungeons contained lots of bosses there.

^ This. XI didn't really have weekly caps either, in a way. Most of the lockouts were only 2-3 days, so you could do it more than once a week. XI also let you gear up all of your jobs, rather than being forced to pick a main and guess what, people still grinded the content as much as they could and still kept players busy for years. XIV went the weekly cap route and lost a good portion of its playerbase by 2.1 and its further been dropping steadily since then.

The worst part of weekly caps is when you cap on reset day and have absolutely nothing to do for a whole week, that's just bad game design. Weekly caps make players bored and quit. The point of a mmo is to keep people subbed for as long as possible and to play every day and every month, not "play once a week, cap, probably unsub the month after an update." No idea why modern mmos consider this a good idea, it's just less money for them.

[Welsper59]

And "punished" doesn't always mean actual harm. People with more time are being punished for playing more because once they cap alex/eso/scrips, theres nothing else to do until Tuesday, even if they want to keep playing.

And yes, they are "taking something away". They're taking the ability for people to stay entertained. They're taking away the chance to actually gear yourself in more possible ways / more jobs, rather than forcing you to play how they want you to play.
If someone wants to grind out eso/alex loot for all their jobs and has the time to do so, they should be allowed to. Sure, you can say they'll run out of things to do and get bored, but that's also the fault of SE for adding a tiny amount of content and expecting it to keep people entertained for 4-5 months, when it doesn't.
How would you like it if there was something you enjoyed doing and could do it for hours, but after 40 mins of doing it, someone comes out and tells you that you can't do it anymore, even though you have the time to continue to do it? That's pretty much what XIV's like now for people who play more than an hour a day.

That's not what "punished" means lol. Here, you're being limited (not punished) to their rules that they set in place for a new system of currency. What you're trying to imply is along the lines of how having to drive on the right side of the road in the US is punishing people that might want to drive on the left. Would you honestly say they're being punished for that law? I hope not lol.

They are not taking away anything from you, simply for the fact that it's impossible to take away something that never existed in the first place. IF, in the case of red scrips, that currency already existed and was freely available without limitations, then you'd have a stronger argument on feeling punished. Given that red scrips did not exist in the game until what we have was introduced, and we did know ahead of time what this entailed, there's no punishments involved. It's simply following the same limitations that has ALWAYS existed in this game. Punishment is issued under the intent to instill the idea that outcomes are a consequence of actions, to steer people away from something that can be done immediately but not wanted... like punishments for harassment or hacking the servers. Yoshi-P and the devs would have to have created these limitations under the direct purpose to make you feel bad and suffer for your intentions in order for it to be punishing. I guess you COULD warp reality to look at it that way, but you'd essentially be classified as something along the lines of a sociopath. Given how quick people are to assume companies are out to get them these days, I guess I shouldn't overlook such a possibility here lol.

Also full patch content is 3 months, give or take a couple weeks. In between these months, we get smaller patches, some of which are game changing or long term additions (like red scrips or the Gold Saucer). Content is certainly there. Players are the ones who are twisting the facts to better suit their own hate. Ever since 2.0 was announced, this game has and always will be a theme park MMORPG. So it's never right to believe that it's a situation of "now" it's like this... it's always been like this. This has always been the design philosophy, more or less. Content will be released to cater to many audiences. This means that there's a very high chance that some folks, maybe you, are not in any way/shape/form, the primary target audience for every single patch of content. Folks like me, on the other hand, LOVE most of the side content they release. The fact they attempt to focus on multiple things is very attractive to me for a game to keep me entertained. I, from that point alone, am often their target audience. I could still get bored though, there's zero delusions about that lol. I just doubt I'll be viewing such content as punishing, even if I might be bored of it. Limiting, sure... but not punishing.

[Blood-Aki]

The worst part of weekly caps is when you cap on reset day and have absolutely nothing to do for a whole week, that's just bad game design. Weekly caps make players bored and quit. The point of a mmo is to keep people subbed for as long as possible and to play every day and every month, not "play once a week, cap, probably unsub the month after an update." No idea why modern mmos consider this a good idea, it's just less money for them.

It's actually the other way around, it would be terrible game design to have everything uncapped, so people just cap out on items in a week, because they don't sleep or do other things, then they will unsub untill next patch, You kind of have that backwards, the game has survived and is even doing well with the current system. Try finding others things to do, Which there is plenty of if you actually play.

[Obysuca]

When you say "punished", you're implying that they are taking something away (literally and/or figuratively) from you and, through this action, is causing harm to you in some way.

What you're trying to imply is along the lines of how having to drive on the right side of the road in the US is punishing people that might want to drive on the left. Would you honestly say they're being punished for that law? I hope not lol.

>_> Make up your mind lol Because driving on the wrong side does punish, since it can cause harm

[Welsper59]

>_> Make up your mind lol Because driving on the wrong side does punish, since it can cause harm

... that was an example of simply wanting, not doing, and being bound to restrictions. Only wanting to drive on the wrong side of the road is not punishing, as no one gets hurt if you don't do it, you just want to. Is this desire (not actually doing) causing you direct and intentional physical, psychological, emotional, or moral harm? Just like here, you want there to be no limitations, and because that's not the case, you think of it as punishing. Is that desire causing you physical, psychological, emotional, or moral harm? If you answer no to either of these, then it is not punishing. If you answer yes, then my mention of "sociopath" may apply. Words have specific times of use. "Punish" is not applicable to what your initial point is. It would be applicable if you were collecting all the red scrips you could ever want with no limitations, then they saw that and said that's wrong, and took it away from you because it didn't fit their intentions, then THAT would be an example of being punished. Because that opportunity never existed, you're not being punished, it's simply a limitation from design choice. It's similar to anyone dumb enough to argue that having to level a class/job to max is "punishing" the player after the fact they did the grind once already. Again though, I got what you meant originally, it's just not right to view it as though they're out to harm you lol.

[Nadirah]

Not to mention Yoshi P forgot wich players it was that kept funding him and his dev team to create FFXIV A WoW Clone Reborn.

When I first started playing this game felt more like the WoW I remembered from 2004-2008, the one I enjoyed immensely.

The LESS they take from the abominations that were Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor, and the more they take from the Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King eras, the better.

That game immensely dropped in fun level right around Cataclysm. I loved Cata at launch. Loved most of the dungeons added later, but the stupid long raid cycles and the gradual gutting of difficulty was it's downfall.

I'm warily looking at Legion; it looks to be more of the same bullshit and it's depressing. Where are all the MMOs I could lose myself in for 8 hours a day?

[Ashkendor]

I'm talking about "mandatory" in the sense of top-tier progression. If someone's in a midcore static progressing in Savage Alex with friends the gloves aren't going to make or break his performance relative to his raiding cohort.
Additionally if someone's bitching about having to do a grind that, at worst takes a couple days, he probably doesn't deserve a static slot. You can get 150K over a few weeks from Mini-cactpot alone, and if there's Battle Square/Combat GATEs and gear for other classes available he's clearly not doing this "grind" without his static members.

Fighting an enemy gauntlet with randomised handicaps together with friends for multiplicative MGP rewards. How is that something to complain about? It sounds fun.

I wasn't even talking about statics. I agree with you about static slots, but dollars to donuts you'd start seeing Primal EX parties "Healers have Godbert's Gloves or GTFO" and crap like that. A lot of people seem to have a "monkey see monkey do" attitude toward the frontrunning hardcore raiding groups. They mimic their equipment and group makeups and in a lot of cases don't even really understand why (and in some cases, don't understand why it doesn't work for them and they can't magically clear the content when they follow everything to the letter).

I'd love me some Battle Square content to pound on with my static, though.

I say this joke to a FC member all the time lol He complains how he's always coming drk for things and I told him that he can come drg if he wants. He complains how then we might get bad tanks and I told him that if he came drg, he'd still be tanking something :P

I love teasing 'goons. This morning I ran Expert with a friend (on his DRG) and got a random DRG. I told them, "Alright, you two Dragoons decide now who's tanking the floor, because I don't want any fighting about it."

The funny part is the 'goon in our static is our best DPS. I tease him too. :3

I know this is going to draw the torches and pitchforks back, but in a way, that would be a little better than what we have now if you think about it. Look at all the people who are 15-20 ilvl lower than the required amount to get into content and just slap on tank accessories and what not. In the end, we would have better geared people, so content could be cleared easier (if you don't count the just plain bad people who refuse to learn and just bash buttons).

Man, I don't even wear tank jewelry on my tank. I can't fathom why people want to wear it on anything else.

I'm going to sound like a jerk for saying it, but if those people refused to farm that specific gear to gear themselves better, resulting in a better (not skillwise) job, which might end up causing the people who actually want to clear the content, to keep wiping because that person won't do a simple task, then they should be kicked. I can't tell you how many times I've been the nice guy and gave people way too many chances, then the pt ends up dying. Like Titan hm in 2.0 and anything thats not a faceroll fight, whenever the pt leader kicked the poor players and replaced them, we finally won.

Eh. Forcing people to do Gold Saucer in order to raid leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's no different than if people were forced to raid in order to craft or forced to gather in order to cra... oh wait. :3

It would teach people to pull their own weight and not expect to get carried through content, causing unneeded stress and wipes for people who want to clear it. Don't have X gear? Looks like you're not ready to tackle Y content.

Dunno. My fear is unreasonable expectations from the community, like the aforementioned example of "Godbert's Gloves or GTFO" for EX primal parties and other content where it's simply not needed.

When people finally agree and all are here too the white knights that always where approving of they think they are allowed everything that you have just because they pay for a subscription and that horizontal progression works.

Just... what? I have no idea what you're actually trying to say here.

[Glasya]

...

Again, Gold Saucer is just one example.
On the other page I mentioned Notorious Monsters (like hunts, but with mechanics that severely punish people who don't obey the rules, HP pools/damage that scales with the number of participants and very real chances of encounter failure- with the boss running off), frontier work that rewards points for assisting with dynamic events, large dungeons that have a limited duty timer with rewards for exploration and killing enemies. Things like this.

Also,
A. People already discriminate based on iLv.
B. If anything having low iLv stuff remain relevant will help with this issue, and
C. Everyone will have their own gear sets with unique procs. Ninjas might get boots that increase Huton duration, Monks a circlet that reduces the cooldown on Internal Release, Tanks a pair of gloves that improves Parry rate. You wont be able to type up a PF listing accounting for every single variable.