Isn't this class trinity a bit dated now?

[Lilith_Merquise]

So we have this nooby friendly Trinity of Tank, Healer and DPS. Which I get it, its there to kinda break people into the system of MMOs but aren't we past that now? We have "Support" BRD and MCH falling in some grey zone that justifies their lack of DPS output, but are still no DRG/MNK/SMN and are grouped due to lack of specific defining. WAR on the other hand is on the opposite side of the argument, that it can pretty well fulfill DPS and Tank and out DPS common players on specialized classes.

So if that is acceptable, why do we still lack Hybrids when one is already "successfully" in the game? Why do we still lack a Support designation other then the BS answer claiming that it would screw with Duty Finder? SE is scared of making "FFXI RDM Syndrome" in FFXIV by making sure that buffs kinda help, but are so negligible they are not even necessary, which is why we won't ever see a haste spell.

[Lilith_Merquise]

I get it, we don't want jobs to become obsolete, nobody wants to be the lolDRG sitting in Jeuno or the SoloMN in Bhaflau Thickets because he can't get parties, I get it. But at the same time this pandering to everybody so that their class stays relevant stagnates classes that could contribute something truly great and innovative to the game, as well as changing the possibilities for how people do things in the game.

With DPS checks being as strict as they are in higher content, its hard to even think of what is a good time to kick into song or turret promotion with out costing your party a 1% Rage Timer Wipe. This system also limits the possibilities of other classes being introduced to the game that introduce versatility and can step into a role for a clutch save to hop back to its previous role. Please stop trying to pigeonhole other jobs and hold them back, while allowing other classes to go unnoticed or unchecked.

[HoodRat]

WAR on the other hand is on the opposite side of the argument, that it can pretty well fulfill DPS and Tank and out DPS common players on specialized classes.

You must have a higher standard for "common players" than me if you think only warriors can out dps them.

[Lilith_Merquise]

You must have a higher standard for "common players" than me if you think only warriors can out dps them.

Haha good point, but its more that if someone is well geared, and say doesn't know the most optimal rotation for their class but still putting out solid DPS we'll say 300-100 less DPS then optimal, should a tank class be able to over parse that class? Now sure the "Common Player" is probably far worse then that lol, and sure I could out DPS a meh DRG/MNK/SMN on my MCH, but it's more that a WAR can get pretty damn close to the optimal performance of a specialized DPS, but you don't see a DRG taking to the face a Opressor Savage and living very long to tell the tale or even half as long as the WAR would.

That is more of what I'm jabbing at, that we can't have hybrid classes and yet somehow WAR is in that zone but according to Yosheep "Operating as intended." And also classes like BRD/MCH lacking definition to be grouped with Specialized DPS when its pretty clear they are meant to be a "Support Role."

[m3eansean]

Duty Finder is the reason.

I think in the last live letter, or the one before, they were asked why there is no support category for BRD and MCH. They said they are concerned about it borking the duty finder and how it pairs players. Leading to perhaps very long queue times.

[Lilith_Merquise]

Duty Finder is the reason.

I think in the last live letter, or the one before, they were asked why there is no support category for BRD and MCH. They said they are concerned about it borking the duty finder and how it pairs players. Leading to perhaps very long queue times.

See but that is a load of it, it would essentially make it so that there is a 1 DPS and 1 Support slot of the 2 current small dungeon groups, or make it so that its 1 DPS and 1 Open slot that can fill only DPS or Support. then make it for 8 people groups that 1 slot is reserved for a Support making 3 DPS slots. If anything you would probably have a bit of a cramped Support slot, but less cramped DPS slots. It's just an excuse for an honestly simple solution, and que times for DPS are already disgusting as is, just means BRD and MCH would be competing for Support Slot; while SMN/DRG/MNK/NIN compete for DPS slot.

[m3eansean]

it will certainly lengthen queue times, as there will be times when a support is not queued, but say several dps are waiting to roll. The duty finder would keep searching for support, leaving the waiting tanks healers and dps. You are reducing the pool of available entities to queue for the instance and establishing more variables when searching to fill the party.

This is the very reason they are wary of this.

[StouterTaru]

It could have worked in the class/job system if they had worked out the giant kinks in it. The biggest issue is making a support job's dps and support skills justifiable to take up a dps spot in a 4 man instance, yet weak enough to not make it overpowered in an 8 man.

[BlueMageQuina]

I'd love to see a support role added.
I'd love for some particular jobs that already specialize in...

• [1] support functions (BRD songs, AST cards),
  [2] indirect functions (SUM Egis and DOTs)
  [3] or hybrid functions (WAR tank and DPS, SUM DPS and heal [raise])

...to be able to both chose or roll for which battle role they enter into instances as.
I'd love some new jobs that exist solely as a support role. They don't even necessarily have to be buffers; debuffers and trinity hybrid classes are fine support roles too.
I'd love for light parties to become (1 tank, 1 healer, 1 DPS, 1 support or DPS) as to not lose so much DPS in dungeons and other instances.
I'd love for the support role to take the place of 1 DPS, tank or healer in full parties.
I'd love to see a support role added.

[Lilith_Merquise]

Ya but that is sort of Semantics tbh, sure it might increase que times because it is another variable, but it could reduce the time because, the same could be said of a healer waiting on a Tank, or a Tank waiting on a healer. The que time is far shorter for these classes if the que is moving steady because the pool of availability is far smaller, but can be deadly annoying if they are the only one qued up for it and tanks or healers are no where to be found.

So really if it did change anything it would be small to insignificant other then the fact that Support classes wouldn't be given half the shit they get and be properly defined and facilitated as, and frankly the stuff that has gross ques would remain gross.

And also as I mentioned, if you left the "Support Spot" Open so that it could be filled with DPS or Support for 4 man Dungeons, then it would operate sorta like open slots in PF that dictate only 2 types of classes or even 1 being permitted. This would make it so that players of the Support role, wouldn't be discriminated against for their DPS and perhaps even get better abilities due to their classifications in the utility role, but not hinder the over all flow of ques.