Isn't this class trinity a bit dated now?

[Savagelf]

i happy with the system ffxiv been no complex talents that make hard to understand game be born adhd sometime i miss detail when play my class or job

[DPZ2]

So we have this nooby friendly Trinity of Tank, Healer and DPS. Which I get it, its there to kinda break people into the system of MMOs but aren't we past that now?

The Trinity isn't there to introduce people to group combat in an MMO, the Trinity is the group combat premise in an MMO. It is there because you will always have people of disparate abilities in the game and predictability of outcome in group combat requires it.

[Zephan]

The Trinity isn't there to introduce people to group combat in an MMO, the Trinity is the group combat premise in an MMO. It is there because you will always have people of disparate abilities in the game and predictability of outcome in group combat requires it.

No, it's not. It's the premise in most of the hugely-popular MMOs, sure, but then there are things like Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, RaiderZ, Blade and Soul, etc. Particularly in action-MMOs such as RaiderZ - where survivability is ultimately based on skill due to attacks being manually avoidable, with gear only serving as a "cushion" - tanks and healers are essentially nothing but a crutch to be overcome.

[Yonanja]

Can't speak for any of the other games you mention, but can say that the dungeons and "raids" in Guild Wars 2 is mostly just a zergfest, were everyone is attacking stuff whilly nilly. I'd hate to see FF take a similar route, for PvE group content that system just doesn't work. In a singleplayer game, or maybe PvP it does, but it makes PvE just be chaos.

[Legion88]

After reading this all, there is just an official trinity, in the practice we have allready support classes/jobs.
AST is primary a supporter, 'kay it's a bit to random but it's the right step.
SCH is a supporter to, you can see it as a DPS with healing support or a healer with direkt DPS support.
And by the way, all healers are just supporters, they support the tanks to mitigate damage.
For BRD and MCH it's a different story, cause there support is mostly just for emergancy regeneration like "Oh shit helaer dead! > Manasong" or "fight takes to long all out of TP by time > TPsong". So every support of BRD/MCH will be a DPS loss, if it's not waved in dps stops at all. Every other "supporter" i mentioned has only "support abilitys" which increase the damage of the party.
So be careful with the wish for an support role on its own, you could swap more jobs to it as you would like and they and all other could reworked for this as you don't like them.

I like game mechanic based discussions, so im looking forward to see some of you on an other game mechanics discussion thread.

[Emeke]

I think adding a support role would be cool, mostly because I personally am drawn to that role. That's why I'm enjoying Astrologian because I get a touch of it. If they was to implement and add support roles, jobs, I think the current jobs could stay as is. Bard, Machinist- dps, Astrologian - healer, etc. But instead add new jobs that are completely support. Like Dancer or whatever. Knowing these roles are very niche within players DF becomes a major concern. So why not make it so supports could be a "bonus". Instead of 4 man dungeons up it to 5. 1 tank, healer, 2 dps, 1 support. However make support not mandatory. If a support role does not cue in within a time set, then the group can proceed as normal without one. To me I think a support role is more of a buffing job. One job could specialize in buffing allies, another could be debuffing enemies. Not dps, healing, or tanking.

[Emeke]

I think adding a support role would be cool, mostly because I personally am drawn to that role. That's why I'm enjoying Astrologian because I get a touch of it. If they was to implement and add support roles, jobs, I think the current jobs could stay as is. Bard, Machinist- dps, Astrologian - healer, etc. But instead add new jobs that are completely support. Like Dancer or whatever. Knowing these roles are very niche within players DF becomes a major concern. So why not make it so supports could be a "bonus". Instead of 4 man dungeons up it to 5. 1 tank, healer, 2 dps, 1 support. However make support not mandatory. If a support role does not cue in within a time set, then the group can proceed as normal without one. To me I think a support role is more of a buffing job. One job could specialize in buffing allies, another could be debuffing enemies. Not dps, healing, or tanking. If they did have heals or dps, it should be considerably lower than the jobs that fill that role.

[Callback]

Dated? It's ancient. It fell out of style more than a decade ago. Problem is, XIV uses the same shitty antique combat system that forces it. The trinity is a symptom of shitty combat design, and it will never be cured within XIV.

[AI_wass]

The reason we have a trinity system is because it's a tried-and-true formula that's easy to design and balance around, and that any combat system with any real level of depth must support a system with at least as many roles. One pillar of the trinity controls threats, one pillar supports the party, one pillar murders threats. There's a little wiggle room for hybrids, but building a hybrid such that it can handle more than two roles at once is a balancing nightmare. A little too weak, and it's useless. A little too strong, and it's overpowered. AST, with its party buffs, already treads that awkward line between under- and overpowered. And if you do get that magic balance right, you have to keep designing around it and tiptoeing so as not to upset it. Hybrids centralize encounter design and job balance around themselves like gravity wells.

It's much easier, much less of a headache, to design more straightforward jobs with interesting gimmicks than to develop true hybrid jobs.

[DarthVella]

The reason we have a trinity system is because it's a tried-and-true formula that's easy to design and balance around... It's much easier, much less of a headache, to design more straightforward jobs with interesting gimmicks than to develop true hybrid jobs.

Agreed. As interesting as a more varied set of roles would be, it would take an intense amount of trial and error for it to be even near balanced, and you would need to fine-tune the system each and every time you add levels and classes. And while doing so is not a bad thing to do, it is (sadly) far easier and more alluring to take something pre-existing that you know works and put your own spin on it.

To cap it all off, to get a new system like that working within an existing game would require uprooting and reworking pretty much everything from character stats to solo quests to dungeon mechanics. You might as well be making FF XIV: Reborn Harder.