Tank adjustments we can agree on?

[eagledorf]

Making defiance work with abilities is a bad idea

This is an issue when you compare Scholar that gets 1800 potency a minute in the form of instant heals that don't get buffed + extra stacks from Dissipation compared to White Mage that only gets 700 or Astrologian that only gets 600 (400/40s). Defiance is already 5% less effective in buffing heals than Shield Oath or Grit so Warrior doesn't need to be even more disconnected from the healers.

If WAR needs a nerf, it should come as an adjustment elsewhere. It shouldn't be just leaving in a bug that's poorly balanced like this.

[MeeYow]

I think Clem should be 1.5s cast because they are a tank.

No, bugs should be "fixed" there is no reason a heal should not work with something. Less you suddenly want to make other tank stances not work with some types of damage.

Is this an accepted bug or something you personally want? (Spoiler: It's not a bug) There is a big difference between those two things.
Is it maybe not a coincidence that WAR became so powerful at the same time a lot of the new healing skills introduced were abilities?
What about Convalescence?

This is an issue when you compare Scholar that gets 1800 potency a minute in the form of instant heals that don't get buffed + extra stacks from Dissipation compared to White Mage that only gets 700 or Astrologian that only gets 600 (400/40s). Defiance is already 5% less effective in buffing heals than Shield Oath or Grit so Warrior doesn't need to be even more disconnected from the healers.

If WAR needs a nerf, it should come as an adjustment elsewhere. It shouldn't be just leaving in a bug that's poorly balanced like this.

Either quote the whole argument or don't quote at all. Context.

Also, see my response to the previous quote. Include fact I already pointed out in my original post that most serious healers can get around this problem with little difficulty, or that before we consider that the scholar could just heal the other tank. Or the ever so convenient heal that comes with inner beast.

So lets put that context back in. If you insist on fixing this 'bug' (that actually seems suspiciously deliberate - see the above) then we get back to end of my post where i said something else has to give way.

So.......you agree with me.

I would rather it was 'fixed', because the heal bonus is a non issue with proper forward planning on the healers part, and buffing it in exchange for lowering something else might actually level the playing field a bit.

But seriously, it's NOT a bug, it was a conscious decision made by the dev team and is working as they intended at the time whether you like it or not.
Don't try and justify anything by it being a bug.
Otherwise you have put so much of the emphasis of your argument on a statement that simply isn't true.

[eagledorf]

Snip

It was accepted as a bug in the bugs forum. Yoshi said something to the effect that they'd just wait and see if they need to fix it as new content plays out.

[Brian_]

PLD changes:

Oaths off the GCD, no longer breaks combos. You can already drop Shield Oath oGCD to negate the damage penalty. You are only spending a GCD to gain the AA bonus from SwO. Just change it already. At the very least, there needs to be some streamlining with Oaths because the current way it works is just a mess.

Buff Rage of Halone's potency and/or the enmity modifier of Savage Blade and RoH to be equal to WAR / DRK enmity combos. This is an unacceptable fundamental imbalance that exists only for archaic reasons. How this wasn't changed for HW's release just shows a blatant lack of foresight.

Buff Shield Swipe's potency to be above the average potency of the RoH / RA / GB combos. Buff the enmity modifier to be above the enmity generated by the average of the RoH combo. Consider the design change of allowing shield swipe to activate RoH / RA / GB combo bonuses. Shield Swipe's efficiency is still balanced based on 2.X standards just like RoH. The skill in unusable currently and fixing it would help PLD DPS, enmity generation, and TP management. A must change.

Change Shelltron to 1~2 seconds of 100% block rate and change the MP recovery accordingly. As is, it's incredibly inconsistent. Half the time an auto-attack will eat it up. The other half of the time, you're trying to time it so closely that the server does not update in time for it to register. With this change, your timing still needs to be exact but at least you can get it to consistently block what you want it to block.

Add ~50 potency to Flash (traited). Lower Circle of Scorn CD or buff CoS damage and apply the enmity modifier to the DoT. PLD AoE enmity and damage are just straight up horrible. Their mitigation in AoE situations is tangibly better than DRK / WAR but that still does not justify having 500+ less DPS and garbage tier enmity in AS2.

Shield Bash no longer breaks combos. Reduce start-up to 0 frame (instant) hit confirmation. TP cost reduced to <40. It's okay to leave it on the GCD but it's not okay that it's so cumbersome to use as an actual interrupt. Since you have everyone spamming their oGCD stuns for extra DPS and triggering DR, the extra duration is often irrelevant. In the end, you're left with a stun that is GCD locked so squeezing it into an interrupt window is much harder, it interrupts your combos, AND it costs a boatload of TP that you're already starved on. Fix it. How it hasn't been fixed yet is embarrassing.

Divine Veil. Either buff it to 20%+ or make it so it requires no trigger and has a lower CD. As is, it's a weak shield on par with Succor that has a long CD, requires an activator, and is generally super clunky to use.

Clemency. It's complete garbage. Redesign it completely. I don't understand the idea behind this skill at all. Are Paladins supposed to be healing? Because they certainly can't while taking hits as an MT. Are they supposed to be healing while OTing? Because that's 3 seconds of 0 DPS on content that healers have no issues healing already. The only way I see this working is if it's instant cast on a longer CD like Tetragrammaton. Maybe then it would be comparable to Equilibrium.

[shao32]

this changes are dps focus, whe are tanks, i dont care if they can dealt good dps, but in tanking mode and dps mode i think they need more diference, dps stance need more penalty from tanking capacity, thats become the clases more hard to play, DRK have both stances up all time but grit if no up can make darkside some penalty in some actions, something like make all defensive action to 50% less efective, thats would be great.

and for shield oath and grit i prefer if removed the 20% reduction and change for 20% armor extra, and make change like paladin 30% of phisycal defense and 20% magic defense in shiel oath, and dark knight the same but magic 30% and phisyical 20%.

extra potency in skills nop, but put blunt defense down in shield swipe can help to make drk and pld teams whit monks, and for defiance and heal from certain skills i agree.

if i can say something mi proposal is remove VIT and make vigor stat, al clases can take extra vit from vigor but tanks base they damage from vigor, thats make less diversity in gear configuration yes, but is more importan end this sad war form str vs vit.

and if they still maintain the parry skills like that, change parry stat from chance to incrrese parry str only and end of the story to, or still chance but the str scale whit vigor.

[Misha_Tameshigiri]

Darkside is DRK's version of Maim. Except it's worse because it's coupled with constant MP drain.
It's not a DPS stance. At all.

[MeeYow]

It was accepted as a bug in the bugs forum. Yoshi said something to the effect that they'd just wait and see if they need to fix it as new content plays out.

Cursory check of the English language accepted section showed nothing, but if this is true than I stand corrected. But there is no point discussing changes that will already be made.

Edit: I am not taking your word for this. Source please.

Ignore Iagainst, just trolling at this point.

[Croisciento]

This man speaks the truth.

He doesn't. If Grit/Sword-Shield Oath would be oGCD it would be totally broken. A maximum HP increase and an increase HP recovery via curing magic is nothing compared to a flat 20% damage reduction. on the off gcd it would only work as a blank damage reduction cooldown. Yes I agree it would be great to be able to stance dance freely but if they do that at least put a penatly for the first few seconds. I don't play paladin but WAR are able to stance dance like that because defiance is just effective after being healed.

[Dererk]

Darkside is DRK's version of Maim. Except it's worse because it's coupled with constant MP drain.
It's not a DPS stance. At all.

And not to mention the mp cost of putting Grit up. I'm fine if it breaks combos going on or off what I'm not fine with is having to wait to put it back up if I'm off tanking and an add pops and I need to grab it fast but with Grit on gcd I need to wait.

[FriendlyUncle]

I think Clem should be 1.5s cast because they are a tank.



No, bugs should be "fixed" there is no reason a heal should not work with something. Less you suddenly want to make other tank stances not work with some types of damage.

This isn't a bug, look at your tooltip ffs. Defiance: Increases HP recovery via healing magic by 20% for self. Lustrate is a healing ability. There is a clearly defined difference between spell and a spell-like ability in the game.