Ishgard/Coerthas - Gatewardens, Dragoons, Knights and other Citizenship

[ExKage]

So I've been reading/watching a debate somewhere about dragoons and knights of Ishgard.

Some speculate only Ishgardian citizens can be Dragoons or Knights. Some mentioned that because of the xenophobic nature of Ishgard, races such as Lalafell and Miqo'te cannot be Ishgardian and/or Knights of Ishgard and/or Dragoons.

However I've seen 1.0 Gatewardens who were Miqo'te and Lalafell.

So what does this mean about citizenship of Ishgard or its willingness to take outsiders to work -what- titles. We see some racism between Elezen and Hyur which then goes into the classism we see now.

[Belhi]

I suspect that you do need to be a citizen. The WoL is the obvious exception on the Dragoon front and there is specific reasons for that.

That said, while Ishgard tends to be very Xenophobic, I do think that Lalafell and Miqo'te could become citizens. After all we see Lucia as a Ishgardian and a Knight. I don't think there are many of them though. Ishgard tends to be quite ridged and conservative so it would be a difficult environment to settle in without a benefactor.

[Jonnycbad]

All Dragoons are Temple Knights (Dragoons are knights, have title of Ser).
Dragoons are a branch of Temple Knights, and they all are under Aymeric. The Azure Dragoon is not technically the 'leader' of the Dragoons, simply the 'chosen-one' of the Dragoons. Aymeric calls Estinien by his first name without a 'Ser' or by his title directly, however Estinien calls Aymeric "Lord Commander". Basically the Dragoons are the equivalent of Green Beret/Delta Force, they are special forces, not necessarily the best warriors, but rather warriors that specialize solely in combatting dragons. The woman in DRG's 52 job quest says that the way Ishgardian Dragoons fight differs vastly from how YOU fight--and she chalks this up to you fighting tons of things OTHER THAN dragons, giving you flexibility and an edge in general (also because you have training as a Gridanian Lancer, Limsan Marauder and Uldhan Pugilist).

Though I haven't researched it fully in quests, it would seem like any other society that Knights would need to be Nobles/Aristocrats to receive or be eligible for Knighthood. Lowborns and commoners cannot become knights. That being said, Limsa is a Thalassocracy, Gridania is a shaman/druid/spiritualist society, and Uldah is a merchant/royal house, dualistic society. None of these cities have 'Knights' per se, Paladins are the Sultana's guard and are Knight-ish I suppose, but not in the truest sense I think...there's no feudalism in Uldah. So, I doubt that Ishgard would recognize anyone from these cities as worthy of being 'Knighted' based on birth rank. Even the rich syndicate members of Uldah are not nobles, they are rich merchants/businessmen and not necessarily descendants of royalty (except the Sultana and her kin).

[ExKage]

But as I mentioned... in 1.0 there were at least two Miqo'te Gate Wardens. Are they Knights? Are they considered of Ishgard? Are they citizens? There was also a Lalafell Gate Warden. I assume that all Knights, Temple Knights, and Dragoons are under the umbrella of Ser Aymeric's command but how does that reflect their -status- in Ishgard?

The game does a weird job of calling people Ser or not. Heustienne is a dragoon. But in the journals she is not always labeled as Ser. I think i found it just once. I don't remember if it was in the quest dialogue later either but xivdb doesn't have the quest dialogue.

((I won't get into how Eorzea uses Ser for Knights as well since I'm primarily interested in the Knights of Ishgard)

[myahele]

They could very well be citizens since Ishgard was never as reclusive as it was in 1.0- 2.XX. I can imagine a small/brave handful of miqo'te/lalafells settled in and have family but in the end their in a land filled with Elezens so it's understandable why there'll be so few non-elezen Knights/ Dragoons, especially post-closing of gate.

In one of the quests in Coerthas Western Highlands, anyone -even a hyur midlander- can raise their station if they kill dragons there. Though being entitle Knighthood/ your own Household is probably prohibited or must be very special.

We also know those in the Brume could enlist as just a lowly foot-soldier/guard under one of the main houses or Temple Knights. Those miqo'te/lalafell you saw can very well just be guards and aren't Knighted

[Belhi]

That's true. Basically if you kill a dragon, win a major tournament (though only nobles can enter these) or prove yourself through service it seems you can secure a rank. As I pointed out Lucia is a knight and she isn't elezen or even native. The other path to rank in Ishgard is through the church. Commoners can and do become clergy. We might learn more about this in 3.1 since there will be quests focused on their collage.

[IrisBlanchimont]

Xemophobic doesn't mean racist necessarily. They don't like those not of Ishgard but it is possible that non-Elezens are Ishgardian. It would be unlikely geographically, bit of those other races Miqo'te Ishgardians make sone sense based on our recent beliefs on their origin.

[Dalvy]

There are hyur noble houses, but they are only minor lords. Coerthas is largely populated by hyur and elezen, and I think they aren't racist, just that the harsh climate turns away other races from settling. You do see roe and miqote bounty hunters in Dravania (tailfeather residents are labeled as citizens of Ishgard in the AST quest), and other races are being hired as sellswords by the high houses.