Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

[Eye_Gore]

I think it really more depends on where the player put their bonus attribute points. The difference in gear really isn't that much. I think I mentioned it before but the difference between my full STR and full VIT is about 2200 HP, not enough to really make a difference some of the hits are more than that from a boss fight. In full STR my HP is 14231 total, now when I run dungeons I usually switch it to my mix of 3 STR 2 VIT. I have though forgotten to switch it from full STR, many times. Never once did a healer complain it was too hard keeping me up, or did my health drop so low I would need to hit HG. The DPS difference isn't all that much either. Now I'm just in reference to the 4 man dungeons and 8 man primals. It really doesn't make much difference, if it actually saves time its hardly noticeable.

[Sapphidia]

A full vit tank and a full str tank lose hp at the same exact rate when damaged as accessories provide no defense. Cool down usage plays the largest role in the rate of hp loss.

In terms of HP-per-second lost, yes. But NOT in terms of overall percentage of health lost, and not in terms of "time to survive without a heal". Again... if a healer is doing nothing but standing around and healing and not trying to do any DPS of their own, Strength accessories are 100% objectively better.

But in a situation where a healer wants to weave in cleric stance DPS to improve overall party DPS, a couple of extra seconds of life before a tank needs a heal is a substantial potential increase in party DPS, often beyond what strength over vit can provide for the tank, certainly in the case of a Paladin Tank where their AOE damage is so poor.

It's situational. In a fair amount of cases though, a tank with vit accessories -can- lead to overall higher party DPS due to healers having more time between swapping in/out of cleric stance. It varies based on size of pull, type of tank, healer gear levels and such. Part of the skill of a tank is knowing when those vit accessories might actually be a benefit to equip.

[Kerano]

I'm sorry, would you like healers to just stand there and do nothing when there is nothing to heal? If your tanking is making a healer constantly babysit you, then the problem is you.

I'M SORRY i always assumed that the healers role was healing first. It's your job to "babysit" the PARTY, if they don't need heals sure go ahead dps, but if every healers mentality is "You better gear up so good i don't have to play my role" It just sounds like most healers play healers so they can get in queues fast and still do the dps role. I'm more then happy if the healer can get time to dps.

[Sapphidia]

I'M SORRY i always assumed that the healers role was healing first. It's your job to "babysit" the PARTY, if they don't need heals sure go ahead dps, but if every healers mentality is "You better gear up so good i don't have to play my role"

This is actually worth quoting because it highlights half the point of the back and forth in this thread. It's just as much the tank's job to babysit the party too. If they dont need extra tanking stats to be able to survive, they should go ahead and dps.

The only reason this thread exists is because the mechanics of the game allow for tanks AND healers to gear themselves for damage rather than their primary role, because their primary role isnt so difficult that they're at risk of everything dying if they don't focus 100% on them. The issue is that the squishier a tank is, the less a healer can add DPS to the party, and the more a tank has to gear up to allow a healer to DPS, the less DPS the tank adds.

It's give and take, and varies from dungeon to dungeon. What we DON'T need is each side standing flinging mud at the other side saying "well I do more DPS than you so you should accomodate ME".

[spelley]

*snip*

Strawman is strawman. There is such a thing as a healer DPSing too much that doesn't result in "babysitting." Healers can tunnel vision when DPSing, or will sometimes end up doing the "I'll just finish this cast, swap out of Cleric's and heal" far too late. This is why I (sometimes) prefer tanks with a bit of extra VIT. Top them up, shield them, then have plenty of time to DPS myself before swapping back.

A VIT tank and a STR tank do take the same amount of damage as quickly, but the ebb and flow is more comfortable for me. If the tank is rotating cooldowns, have good gear and is using their self-healing/mitigation well, then they don't need as much VIT. A tank doing all of the above will "feel" the same as a higher VIT tank, but it will depend on the skill/gear level of the tanks and healers involved.

[Seryl199]

You're advocating for the wrong kind of player to be rocking str accessories. Bad tanks have no need for str accessories, they aren't at a level of play that encourages deviation from the norm. If a tank is making multiple mistakes, I'd much rather them have a bigger cushion.

Vitality does not increase your survivability, it increases your "own" chance to make mistakes. Its a very "SELFISH" stat.

In this sense, vit does increase your survivability, as a tank that isn't confident in their abilities or knows they make mistakes can stack vit to give the healer a cushion. Stacking str will only reduce their margin for error, which, according to you,

Vitality tanks are lazy and usually go through threat rotations more because they have to to even hold aggro. They usually make mistakes, a lot of them and seem afkish and yell at you when they pull 3-4 rooms and it takes 2 minutes to kill then whine when they die.

error is an all too common occurrence as a vit tank. You should let tanks make mistakes when it is most lenient on them, when they have more HP.

Vitality is pretty much "Training Wheels", once you know how to ride your bike (tank good) take them off. All your doing is making the healer's job harder for no reason.

Once they've become comfortable in their role, they can start experimenting how they want. Training wheels are to keep you steady because you're bad or aren't confident, then you learn the basics and try going without.

I don't want Padding or "Training Wheels" I want a tank who doesn't lose aggro to me or the dps and actually contributes more to the fight then a damage sponge.

Then don't pug? If they don't know how to ride without training wheels (tank good) why would they try it without? It's up to you to find like minded players if a tank wearing vitality accessories sends you in a tizzy. Your PSA doesn't reach the intended audience at all since,

as a suggestion to new players

they probably don't know what they're doing, and do indeed benefit from the added cushion, and experienced players that can wear whatever they want are already doing so.

[Seshayn]

#gitvit

[Viralblack]

I'M SORRY i always assumed that the healers role was healing first. It's your job to "babysit" the PARTY

The fact that you just referred to healers as babysitters pretty much shows you have zero symbiosis with your healing partners. My job isnt to carry your desire to dps while aoe tanking more than you can handle, but generally it becomes that. Melee doesnt want to move, so they dont to get more dps. Tanks dont want to wear tank gear, so they wear STR and tax my globals. Black mages dont want to navigate away from their circle, so they take the extra hit and save their dps.

You should try being an all glorious and lazy healer sometime, its amazing just how much bullshit you have to carry because people cant work together.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Logic.

People don't learn very well when they have a cushion protecting their fall. They usually think its fun and make sure to land on that cushion again more often, even bounce on it.

By cutting the habit early you make better tanks over all because they don't have that safety to rely on, they now have to try their hardest and best to win. Which means better Tanks for everyone.

[ShadowYomi]

This topic makes me think it is only a matter of time before a issue comes up where a tank that needs on fending accessory is insulted or a tank demands that they receive the slaying accessory that drops. But you cant force people to use what you want them to use especially if that item is gated behind something such as a cap or weekly reset. Unless you are willing to tell me that you would buy those accessories for the tank given the option.