Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

[Freyyy]

Please tell me one thing: When did I started to talk about Healer DPS?

If you mean this:
"...Healer to ress DPS..."
Read it once again and lookup what kind of shortcut ress or rezz is in a MMO.
Maybe you are german or france: DPS means DD (Damage Dealer) and not only Damage per Second.

Lol okay I was wondering if you really spoke about rezzing a DPS because if you have a DPS dying during a trash pull in dungeons you got with a really super bad group or you're not holding agro at all so it seemed kinda silly to me that you were speaking about that and I thought that you might have made a mistake in your sentence and that you were speaking about healer doing more DPS because it was more fitting with the actual thread and your grammar was kinda not helping to fully understand your point. If you really speak about rezzing a DPS, wow. Okay. A DPS dying during a trash pull. Very common situation.

[karateorangutang]

snip

Then I think you misunderstood what I meant. I said nothing of classes or jobs, i'm painting in broader strokes here. A roles' DPS is important. That is to say that DPS of a healer, tank and DPS are all important in the current meta. I don't really care what my party make up is in most things I queue, but I do care if peole are just coasting and heaping extra work on the other roles. If a DPS isn't doing his job, be they a BRD or a DRG, then your heaping work onto the tank and healer and the vice versa.

I said, you do an initial pull and test the waters, but you should always be trying to maximize your DPS no matter if your rocking full VIT or full STR. If the group allows it then you gear appropriately. I don't see where my post falters or confuses itself.

[Noxifer]

lol are you seriously bullshitting yourself to the point where you think healers outDPS STR tanks ? Not even close man. The only healer who can possibly outDPS a tank is the WHM during big pulls but not for very long because Holy costs a buttload of MP.

I'm not sure anyone has really said that healers outDPS strength tanks. What people have been asking, though, is, "If a VIT tank outputs X dps, his healer outputs Y dps. If a STR tank outputs A dps, his healer outputs B dps. Is A+B more than X+Y?" If the VIT tank's healer has the possibility to dps 50% of the fight (example number), but would have to forego cleric stance entirely with a STR tank -- whether it's because it's a non-pro healer or a non-pro tank. Does the extra dps from the Strength tank outweigh the fact that the healer can't dps at all? Because it's not really a matter of "STR tank does more dps than a VIT tank", and it's not "a STR tank does more dps than a healer". It's "does the increase from VIT to STR mean the total dps covers the lack of dps from the healer?"

Sure, if it's a good tank AND a good healer, the healer can still dps with a STR tank. If it's a healer who doesn't dps either way, STR tanks only brings an influx to the party's total dps. But if both tank and healer are 'average', or one of them is slightly below average (whether it's because they're not used to their role, or have other issues), would it still be only a dps benefit?

[karateorangutang]

I'm not sure anyone has really said that healers outDPS strength tanks. What people have been asking, though, is, "If a VIT tank outputs X dps, his healer outputs Y dps. If a STR tank outputs A dps, his healer outputs B dps. Is A+B more than X+Y?" If the VIT tank's healer has the possibility to dps 50% of the fight (example number), but would have to forego cleric stance entirely with a STR tank -- whether it's because it's a non-pro healer or a non-pro tank. Does the extra dps from the Strength tank outweigh the fact that the healer can't dps at all? Because it's not really a matter of "STR tank does more dps than a VIT tank", and it's not "a STR tank does more dps than a healer". It's "does the increase from VIT to STR mean the total dps covers the lack of dps from the healer?"

Sure, if it's a good tank AND a good healer, the healer can still dps with a STR tank. If it's a healer who doesn't dps either way, STR tanks only brings an influx to the party's total dps. But if both tank and healer are 'average', or one of them is slightly below average (whether it's because they're not used to their role, or have other issues), would it still be only a dps benefit?

This is where I wish I could test this. I don't have access to a parser, but in lieu of that...

I agree that tank and healer dps should be looked at as a single unit. That being said, with the exception of odd cases like PLD AoE, the tank and healer would have to be pretty bad to see a better damage output with a pure VIT tank. With rare cases set aside, tank DPS will generally outshine healer DPS. This is not to say that it can't happen, I mean anything can happen in DF, but its not a common occurrence. I run with the same healer all the time and he prefers I run STR over VIT just because dungeons are faster that way. He might get to DPS slightly less, but the damage I get to do outshines the extra damage he would do if I had a little bit more HP.

If anyone would be willing to run a few parsed runs with a healer and gear VIT for one and gear STR for another, it would be great to see the actual numbers. If I was a gambler I'd say that STR accessories are more efficient.

Additionally, I have been proven wrong before. Once upon a time I ran full VIT all the time cause I argued that it was safer. However, I geared STR one day just to try it and was shocked to see my dmg numbers inflate.... but my HP stay stable. I even remember telling my healer after the run and he didn't even notice a difference.

[Dement]

A dead group is doing no DPS
A nearly dead group is also not doing much DPS
Go on VIT and allow Healers to ress one, two or even three DPS which are slepping before the AOE while you do not drop to 0 HP....
I am pretty sure the fight is still faster as with you having STR and doing DPS before a wipe....

If you can guarantee this will never happen: Go STR. But be sure if I am one of the DPS in the group I will flame you down cause of having STR instead of buying time for Healer to ress DPS (which are still making more dmg then STR tank) and avoid a wipe.

Wait... WHAT?

If you're going as a DPS and all the DPS die and the healers can't get them all up because I'm in full STR, you're going to flame me?! I will flame you just as hard back because the question legitimately would need to be asked why do you need a raise in the first place?! I have hate, I'm taking the damage, anything that can kill you is clearly highlighted by glowing ground effects. So let's re-think who is at fault before you start flaming the STR tank that was doing his job.

[Eye_Gore]

I just wanted to be post 400.

[Nomad-phx]

But why not use them? Not like its detrimental to anyone. Reminds me of one run in Neverreap was a large pull, noticed my health really low went to pop off HG but not in time and died. When I respawned I apologized for not getting HG off in time, just got met with grief by one playing saying I shouldn't need it on trash pulls. Well I know I shouldn't need it but I have and if it meant not dying I'm going to use it. Again its not detrimental I have the abilities may as well use them. An unused ability is a useless ability.

Better to have and not need than to need and not have

[Olipopsicle]

Tanks job is to Tank. Not deal damage. This is why we have "Damage" classes.

[SpookyGhost]

Tanks job is to Tank. Not deal damage. This is why we have "Damage" classes.

I'll make sure to only hit the boss enough to maintain aggro then, and not hit the boss at all as OT. ( ' - ' )b

[Whiston]

I'll make sure to only hit the boss enough to maintain aggro then, and not hit the boss at all as OT. ( ' - ' )b

Breaking news: the true tank primary stat is piety.
Flash is OP, please nerfs SE.

Time to start a new thread on the MP balance issues and why DRK is way too far ahead of WAR.