Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

[Freyyy]

Going strength doesn't make you suddenly lose more mitigation, defenses. Vitality gear does not make you any tankier, it bloats your HP.

I know that lol I keep saying it everytime someone is arguing that going with VIT makes you tankier. It's just that when you're not that experienced in tanking it feels safer to get some more HP before going STR. It gives a margin of error when a player is new to tanking and learning the job.

[Drtoxicmedica]

Are you pulling one encounter at a time? My usual tanks pull entire rooms at a time. 7.5-10 seconds of doing nothing = dead tank regardless of gear. Every second they are losing half their hp. I would rather just have a strength tank who kills some of the waves faster.

Yes mutiple groups are being pulled. If you rouse your fairy it's not 7 to 10 seconds of nothing neither is your fairy by itself. Unless of course your tanks can't use cd's they'll be alive by the time you get back to them. Take the first pull to see how much you actually have to heal them and go from there. Bad tanks are bad tanks regardless of secondary stats. You should be able to dps on nearly every pull they do. If that's not the case they are pulling more than needs to be pulled. If your healer can't dps your just hurting the raid dps more often then not regardless of stat placement which is just a bad tank

[bounddreamer]

Anecdotally, I made a Neverreap run with my fresh 60 FC tank buddy the other night. I was on my i185 DRG alt. We got matched with a fresh 60 WHM.

We wiped right out the gate in the first room. Note, he's a 60 DRK who switched from a 50 PLD. He did full strength build on his DRK. STR accessories. He knows how to push cooldowns.

We wiped twice before the first boss. His dps didn't matter for shit bc the WHM could not keep him alive for love or Benediction. We had to start doing smaller pulls. I started advising him on how big to pull. He igored me at the "two bees, not four" and we wiped again...not bc of dps but bc healer could not keep him alive.

It was one of the most painful Neverreap runs to date.

Ran it last night w same tank and our regular healer. He even tanked all four bees without dying.

So I would say no, the all-STR build isn't going to work for every party. Just like tanking in general, when to use and not use STR takes flexibility.

[Drtoxicmedica]

Yes, to increase overall sustain of the group. When you full pull with a new healer your healing them just fine by going b*lls to the walls. However, you run out of stamina quickly, you don't have the gear to sustain that pull for very long. Especially with bloated HP tank.

However, with a DPS Tank (still using tank stance) they kill the monsters faster, each monster killed is that much more damage you don't have to worry about. The fight goes faster.

What usually happens is the fight takes too long.

If you can't keep them alive in the first place what's it matter tho? There not gonna shave off a crap ton of a pull by themselves

[Drtoxicmedica]

Lost all hope for him after that I'm done....

[Sapphidia]

Nektulos has to be trolling, surely? Surely? We've established he's a scholar who isnt able to find time to do DPS when a tank pulls multiple packs (despite lots of scholars in this thread, myself included, saying it's perfectly easy to at least find enough GCDs to throw out some Baned dots). He runs out of mana on huge trash packs as a -scholar-, a class which has basically infinite mana due to their mechanics, unless a tank does huge damage via strength. He thinks that the 15-20% extra damage you get from wearing strength accessories equates to 50% more damage. He thinks ALL tanks should go strength even when undergeared, and that it makes it -easier- on the healer. He's also missing Stoneskin as a crossclass but that's by the by (double shield before a huge pull is kinda handy for dpsing at the start).

It's a shame because the general advice of tanks wearing Strength gear WHEN THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE is perfectly valid, but the way OP has been phrasing the reasons is just causing everyone to lose their minds.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Nektulos has to be trolling, surely? Surely? We've established he's a scholar who isnt able to find time to do DPS when a tank pulls multiple packs (despite lots of scholars in this thread, myself included, saying it's perfectly easy to at least find enough GCDs to throw out some Baned dots). He runs out of mana on huge trash packs as a -scholar-, a class which has basically infinite mana due to their mechanics, unless a tank does huge damage via strength. He thinks that the 15-20% extra damage you get from wearing strength accessories equates to 50% more damage. He thinks ALL tanks should go strength even when undergeared, and that it makes it -easier- on the healer. He's also missing Stoneskin as a crossclass but that's by the by (double shield before a huge pull is kinda handy for dpsing at the start).

It's a shame because the general advice of tanks wearing Strength gear WHEN THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE is perfectly valid, but the way OP has been phrasing the reasons is just causing everyone to lose their minds.

Strength Accessories + 20% from Maim + 50% from Berserk + Unchained is a very huge increase in damage. I would say even about 50% because damage modifiers multiply your damage. I was talking about that if you read my thread.

I have a much easier time healing dungeons when the tanks go full strength, because things honesty die faster.

Strength tanks have more self-healing and sustained health and usually know how to use their mitigation tools better.

[Sapphidia]

Strength Accessories + 20% from Maim + 50% from Berserk + Unchained is a very huge increase in damage. I would say even about 50% because damage modifiers multiply.

Newsflash: Tanks with Vitality Accessories use Maim, Berserk, Unchained too. They get those bonuses multiplied on top of their base damage, which is about 15-20% max lower than a full strength tank.

Noone is debating that strength tanks do more damage, they do. But the difference between a Full Strength and Full Vitality tank is about 20% max, no more. Wearing Vitality gear doesnt stop you from having access to DPS skills.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Newsflash: Tanks with Vitality Accessories use Maim, Berserk, Unchained too. They get those bonuses multiplied on top of their base damage, which is about 15-20% max lower than a full strength tank.

Noone is debating that strength tanks do more damage, they do. But the difference between a Full Strength and Full Vitality tank is about 20% max, no more. Wearing Vitality gear doesnt stop you from having access to DPS skills.

News Flash, they are also losing a significant amount of damage by lacking that 200-250 strength. That strength adds up the potency of your attacks damage. All those "buffs" are multiplied by your strength and attack power.

That 20% is a lot when you add up the multipliers.

100% base x 4 = 400%.
120% base x 4 = 480%.

I also think its more then 20%, 25% I would say.

Fixed it for you

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Storm's_Path
Scales off attack power.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Clemency
Scales off attack power.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Souleater
Scales off attack power.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Bloodbath
Scales off attack power.

Strength also makes things die faster, each dead mob = less damage done to the tank. However, vitality not only lowers your damage but does NOT improve your self-healing or mitigation one bit. You will be dying just as fast, it gives you a few more seconds.

Soo in short, you're a filthy casual who doesn't want to do their job decently? So you blame the next tank you see with vit gear?Ya know, how bout just admitting you suck and wish to know how to git gud, then maybe we can take ya seriously. As for making it harder on healers? Must be the ones you roll with, seeing the few I go into content with can dps, heal, and make me a sammich, all at the same time when running as a tank.

I see you don't PUG. If I had a pet tank myself I would probably not be making this thread. This thread is about tanks learning the game, maybe you should "git lerning 2 reed".

Just posting randomly when you come into a thread doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look silly.

What i'm doing is telling tanks to take off the training wheels they don't really need.

[Metalwrath]

Strength Accessories + 20% from Maim + 50% from Berserk + Unchained is a very huge increase in damage. I would say even about 50% because damage modifiers multiply your damage. I was talking about that if you read my thread.

I have a much easier time healing dungeons when the tanks go full strength, because things honesty die faster.

Strength tanks have more self-healing and sustained health and usually know how to use their mitigation tools better.

I don't consider unchained a damage booster.It's mererly nullifying the damage reduction from defiance and has an annoyingly long cooldown.Also if you gonna use that combo for burst damage it's much better to use those 5 stacks of wrath as abandon instead for a fell cleave which is a free 500 potency hit.Not to mention deliverance gives you more base damage than unchained will.