Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

[Jpec07]

[Post 2 of 3]

Still, gear cannot be said to be inconsequential, since some of our abilities rely on it, and the stats we get. Gear should focus, then, on putting out enough damage to keep threat, and on having enough mitigation to survive. Your biggest contributor to DPS and threat is going to be your weapon, so that should be the first piece upgraded. Tanks should then focus on shoring up their passive mitigation. But by far, the largest gain we see in passive mitigation comes from our Defense and Magic Defense stats, which are mostly given us by our armor.

[Jpec07]

[Post 3 of 3]

As others have said, Parry is in a really bad spot right now, and Vitality doesn't really help your healers (outside of giving them a wider margin of error). You get more mitigation from an enemy that is killed 2% more quickly because of boosted Tank DPS than you get from the Vit and Parry on your accessories (I believe it was calculated to be something like 1% less damage), and since Slaying and Fending accessories both have 1 Defense and 1 Magic Defense, it absolutely makes sense to suggest that tanks should use Slaying pieces in their accessories slots.

It also doesn't help matters that encounters now are tuned with high tank DPS in mind, but I digress.

[Alahra]

Vitality doesn't really help your healers (outside of giving them a wider margin of error).

Not that you will take my word for it, but as a long time healer, this is such an oversimplification it hurts. While VIT does provide an additional margin for error, it also smooths over the healer's ability to DPS, and since you all care so much about finishing encounters 2% faster, you probably shouldn't forget that healer AoE DPS is significant on trash packs.

[OmegaStrongtan]

Since my WAR will be 60 soon.
How many LP (with tank stance active ) should I aim for in Neverreap/Fractal, RavanaEX and Alex Normal?

[SpookyGhost]

Since my WAR will be 60 soon.
How many LP (with tank stance active ) should I aim for in Neverreap/Fractal, RavanaEX and Alex Normal?

13000-15000 for all of the above, out of Defiance.

[Sapphidia]

I think the end result here is that tanks are the only job that have to make the decision to nerf part of their effectiveness (the role they were actually brought along for, technically) in order to be optimal.

Healers and DPS continue to gain power in their DPS output AND their survivability via constant upgrades. They don't have to choose, every upgraded ilevel part they get just buffs them in their role.

Tanks have a choice. Choice is good, yes, but it's weird - on gearing ourselves to be "optimal" by putting out damage, we're making ourselves have a lower EHP. "Harder to heal" isnt really the term, but we're nerfing our ability to be left alone without heals, survive when healers are dead, or take even more spike damage than intended.

Of course once you're comfy in full slaying then yes, every item is an upgrade - mostly talking here about when you're still a bit under the comfy gear for an encounter and are wearing a mix of Fending and Slaying. You get an upgraded left side part, it boosts your damage and your EHP... and then you nullify the EHP boost by swapping out a fending for another slaying.

It can be fun to fiddle the tradeoff, but as you can see from this thread it's a contentious issue. Tanks want to do the highest threat/damage output they can. Healers/DPS want a faster run. But if the tank dies because they make a misplay or the healer has a hiccup, fingers will be pointed at the fact they had less HP than they could have had.

And all this contention just boils down to one thing - tank accessories. If Fending accessories didn't exist and all tanks HAD to use slaying, all would be good (just some cutting edge tankbusters would be a bit harsh). Likewise if Fending had strength on them, or tanks scaled with vitality, it would be fine too.

The issue at hand is that feeling of having to choose to nerf part of your power in order to improve another, which is a tradeoff that other classes don't have to make. Imagine if Cleric Stance didn't exist and healers had to juggle Mind gear for heals and Int gear for maxing dps. You'd see healers running dungeons in full int accessories and the healer forum would be equally awash with "omg healers please use Int accessories for faster runs" coupled with "stop using int accs in dungeons".

Having a choice and gearing correctly for an encounter is part of the fun/skill of an MMO, but it IS a little weird that tanks are the only class needing to make that tradeoff. I think everyone would end up happier if there was a one-size-fits-all mentality for accessories.

[FallenWings]

I think the end result here is that tanks are the only job that have to make the decision to nerf part of their effectiveness (the role they were actually brought along for, technically) in order to be optimal.

So much truth it BURNS.

Despite being a power mad WAR. I certainly do miss those moments when my HP bar barely drops below 60%. The fact that we have to choose between glass cannon and meat wall is certainly a refreshing aspect in this meta but the downside in its views amongst the community can cause far too much stress on a classtype with already too much stress to begin with. Whichever path you take, you don't really become "better" as a whole as you only specialize more in one aspect. Tanks having to suffer from the constant paranoia of what is best for the situation, always and constantly just to appease the other people who will always complain regardless of whichever decision you make. It is INFURIATING.

Wao this boss is dying so slowly, why the hell do you have so little deeps tank?
Wao your HP bar is moving so fast and giving me a heart attack! Why the hell do you have so little HP tank?

Pentamelds are great until you start thinking, wao if I had str/vit accessories I could've done more deeps/survived harder(?).

Put on more STR accessories! Put on more VIT accessories! Buy more Pentamelds!

You're a bad tank in one context or another regardless of whichever you pick.

MMMMRGGLRGLRKLblktlyjhhikrdjkrsdr

[RiisWolf]

So much truth it BURNS.
SNIP

The threat multipliers should never have been so low in the first place.

[Freyyy]

I think the end result here is that tanks are the only job that have to make the decision to nerf part of their effectiveness (the role they were actually brought along for, technically) in order to be optimal.

This is the real problem of this game here. A healer gets his DPS with its primary healing stat (MND) thanks to cleric stance. Why do tanks have to sacrifice their primary tank stat ? Why do tanks are the only role in the game who has two main stats at the same time and must constantly choose between increasing one or the other, and even with pentameld you take that choice, you're choosing to keep both at a balance which is pretty far from the maximum you could get by focusing on one cuz let's face it, current pentamelds are 60 ilvl below the highest accessories in the game; and that's another problem, why the fuck an i150 melded accessory still has more primary stat weight than an i210 one (60 for pentameld i150, 47 for i210) coming from end-game raids which should be BiS ? It makes no sense at all. I support the idea of having tank damage scaling with VIT OR adding STR to Fending accessories and locking them to their respective jobs like left side gear (Fending for tanks, Slaying for DRG MNK, DEX for NIN MCH BRD etc...) thus the DRG and MNK couldn't get more VIT by abusing this. Or instead of locking them, just make Fending accessories have less STR than a slaying but at least as much as you could get with an i150 melded one. It's just silly to not get our BiS jewelry in raids/tokens like everyone else does.
One other problem about tank stats right now is parry. I find it completely silly that the only tank secondary stat is so much garbage that the main focus of a good tank gearing up is "I must avoid as much parry as I can". Just delete this god damn stat already so we would have more room on our gear to fill with interesting DPS stat options. Or make it worth stacking, but for that the entire tanking meta should be changed because right now even if the stat was really doing something to your tankiness, you would still want to increase your DPS instead because the encounters are built that way.

[Lazka]

soooo..... after reading ur post and ppl here...
if tank not have enough DPS for kill mob its tank fault.. not DPS..
if tank have minimum Health and make them easy to get killed... its tank fault or healer.. not DPS(?)
just for extra 20 sec or 40 sec(?) u wanna get risk be wiped in dg or raid?

sooo... u want all job DPS? than make this thread and suggest all vet tank or newb tank to use STR acc...
why not complain to SE and make all job DPS.. no tank.. no healer.. just all DPS.. and bam... all happy right? speed run everywhere... and see how high number in parser.. happy ending eh? no?