Idea: Split Archer into Bard and Ranger

[RiceisNice]

Lol. Just lol. You said that rogue and lancer were totally different and now you are saying that are pretty similar. Every melee DPS in this game will have the 123 combo with 2 dots and a self buff. deal with that

You're making thief similar to LNC by adding them LNC-esq abilties. ROG does not use an attack ability to maintain their buffs, or have that many positionals compared to LCN. So before you start berating other people, make sure to read and understand where they're coming from >_>

[Noelzzz]

You're making thief similar to LNC by adding them LNC-esq abilties. ROG does not use an attack ability to maintain their buffs, or have that many positionals compared to LCN. So before you start berating other people, make sure to read and understand where they're coming from >_>

What is the "LNC-esq" skill? Let me guess, Steel-speed? the selfbuff each dps jobs have already?

[RiceisNice]

What is the "LNC-esq" skill? Let me guess, Steel-speed? the selfbuff each dps jobs have already?

>A skill with no strings attached that buffs/allows access for another skill.
>A skill that grants a buff on attack, and has to be maintained by using it regularly and making sure you don't interrupt your combos.
>Shadow step, a carbon copy gap closer with a stun that's also used by dragoons and monks. To monk's defense, Shoulder Tackle used to have a range requirement, but now the two are functionally the same skills.
>More Positional.

The fact is when you take away the mudra system, you're stripping the class/job of any identity, and what you're adding makes them similar to that of a lancer without any distinction to the thief having it's own identies (unless you count in the animations...which are shared with rogue and ninjas). I don't see the point of adding a side job (or any other jobs for that matter) that plays similar to another class/job in this game setting.

And lastly, the thief class is already represented in the game as the form of rogues. The guild itself even said they were one associated as the thief, but rogue sounded better than the former as far as publicity was concerned.

[Noelzzz]

....

You are missing the point, even mudra system has the self buff thingy that all melee jobs have and future will have. At same point they need to reuse the same mechanics for jobs to maintain the balance. Anyway, i main Ninja, know the class/job pretty well and i am confident that if devs want thief could be a possibility. About Rogues the lore and the quests say they are ex thieves, so no, rogue is not thief. Lastly, don't say thief is a side job! Thief is one of the iconic Final Fantasy job :P

[RiceisNice]

...

The act of using mudra itself is a mechanic that's unique to ninja. Are you trying to say that using huton is the same as using heavy thrust?

They are EX thieves, which are still thieves by concept regardless of what they are called now. You have skills that are core to what a thief would have, down to ones like mug and hide. Hell, your rogue quests downright having you steal stuff anyway.

I'm calling it a side job because we're discussing it being implemented as a branching side job to rogue.

You're right that they need to reuse some mechanics, that's why I'd rather them focus on making new jobs that give them a new slate to work with, rather than trying to smack in branching side jobs that comes with it's own exclusive problems. Thief in concept is so already close to what rogue is (and story line wise, a rogue is basically a thief with good publicity) and trying to force it into a branching side job is just that; forcing it. There's still other ideas that have yet to be used; a melee dps that works with frontal positional, stationary melee dps, spitfire/spell blade, the list goes on. These are the sort of concepts that would require all of the abilities to give it its own identity, not just slapping on 10 skills.

[Noelzzz]

.....

I'm not saying "give me a Thief job now and do not made anything new". I actually agree with you, there other jobs with new mechanics that have priority, but then i would like to see more "side jobs" as you called them, to give more choice to players

[RiceisNice]

I'm not saying "give me a Thief job now and do not made anything new". I actually agree with you, there other jobs with new mechanics that have priority, but then i would like to see more "side jobs" as you called them, to give more choice to players

Even as a funsie thing (assuming development costs isn't a factor), it''d still be a messy implementation because of how these side jobs would be rooted to a class, making balancing an utter hell, especially if they're both going to be the same role. Just slapping on 10 abilities does a job no justice if you're trying to give it it's own identity, unless it's quite literally the only skills they'll use to perform their role (as is the case for scholar and healing)