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  1. #1
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60

    Serious Performance Issues (latency/server response time)

    Never was the horrible state of this game's server response time or inherent latency more painfully obvious than in this current tier of savage raiding. I do not feel as though it's acceptable or perhaps even intended that "part of raiding" is the need to counteract server latency by being overly deliberate with every movement or action. For example, consider AS4 (or A4 as the same mechanic exists there). The balls that spawn do quite a bit of damage and simply "running through" a ball or even into a ball and then turning to run away from it won't work to explode it. You have to run to it, stand in it for a full second or two, and then let it explode before you move. Further, this latency issue is extremely obvious in all kinds of aspects of this game. For example, the BLM ability Aetherial Manipulation "counts" you as being at your starting location even after you've arrived at your target. It takes a full second for AM to "register" that you've arrived at your target. If you don't believe me, go test it by standing until an AoE is about to go off underneath you and then AM to a target that is out of the AoE. You will get hit by the AoE despite being far out of it on your screen.

    I love this game. It has a lot of great content and there's a ton of things I really, really enjoy about it from the crafting system, to the way many of the rotations work, to the raid bosses. However, every attempt at getting friends of mine to come to FFXIV from other MMOs is always met with the same argument: that they can't get used to and deal with the "lag" in this game.

    Are there any plans to address this? It seems as though the servers are only "polling" once every second or two and this is extremely problematic - especially for savage raiding.

    Thanks
    (1)
    Lala Swell - Death and Taxes
    You can lead a man to fish in water, but you should never throw two or more birds in a glass house... or something like that

  2. #2
    Player
    Raist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    2,457
    Character
    Raist Soulforge
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    The servers poll more than 3 times a second. More often than not the problem is network latency issues across the internet and not server side. Get your route to your server checked thoroughly---find the IP your client uses with Resource Monitor (resmon from search/run), run a trace to that address and submit it to your ISP's tier3 support for investigation. Would be a good idea to show a trace to another good service as well for comparison (another online game or a video service, etc). It is usually best to do this through your ISP's online contact options---phone support is typically entry level and won't be able to deal with this, and it can be an exercise in futility sometimes to get it escalated to a higher tier.

    Can also do some testing with some VPN's during their free trial period (some even have a long-term free use policy, though it may be restricted use or locations). Try different tunnel destinations (sometimes the ones closest to Montreal aren't the best choice). If you can improve your stability/response times through a VPN, it is pretty much proof-positive there are issues along the route your ISP is assigning you. Routing issues like that fall under your ISP's responsibility to address and not SE---Square-Enix does not hold influence over your ISP's routing policies.
    (0)
    Last edited by Raist; 09-01-2015 at 04:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    maTyaR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    70
    Character
    E' P'
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 70
    Sadly, the location of where they have decided to implement the data centers have a routing to one of the most terrible network routing possible.

    The SE servers itself have no issues with latency itself (199.91.189.25 - Gilgamesh, getting consistent numbers through trace routing/ping), but to reach to their servers, we're forced to go through Level3 node servers. This is where the serious lag comes in if you ping one of the routing hops on Level3 (4.69.141.1 - massive latency spikes from 26ms to 230+ms with no packet loss). Level3 seems have to signed private contracts to reroute bandwidth priority to Netflix during heavy peak times (rumors).

    Second issue is the game concept itself using TCP. To have a precise location of where you and the enemy stand, you would use UDP (custom programming). First person games use UDP strictly, as players would want as close to 1:1 precision of what you see, and what the opponent sees. FFXIV cannot use UDP as it uses more data traffic to calculate your positioning, the monsters, and everyone/everything else you see on your screen itself. It also causes more strain on the SE servers to determine the specific location, and sending the data back to every client.

    In summary, Level3 is to blame for the latency spikes, SE made a game concept of mechanics which would normally require positional precision.

    P.S: HI LALA, !!

    Edit: And to off load the amount of data, lag compensation would be used.
    Edit 2: This will only get worse. It needs to be addressed ASAP or else it'll be as devastating as player congestion during official launch.
    (0)
    Last edited by maTyaR; 09-01-2015 at 05:43 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Thanks for the replies.

    As to it not being server-side and it being with our connection, I'm afraid to report that this isn't an issue isolated to me or even 2 or 3 or 5 people. This is an issue spread across literally everyone I've ever raided with. This is through 100mbps connections, through using Battleping or WTFast or even through VPNing to locations close to the data center. This is an issue with FFXIV and not with our machines or our connections. For example, here are my stats:

    i5 2500K CPU
    GTX980 4GB GPU
    8GB RipJaws DDR3 RAM
    Intel SSD
    100mbps down / ~20mbps up

    This is an issue with the game and with the servers or the way the game handles collision detection/positioning. I can even make a video if you want of me running directly through the balls on AS4 to have them not explode. I've even done this on AS3 where I've accidentally side-stepped through the little ball that comes out in the last phase only to have it not explode (thankfully in this case).

    All I can say is that were I to fire up a game like WoW (I don't play WoW anymore because I find it boring and old), the responsiveness of the game is extremely crisp and exact. Things are far more fluid and synchronized there. I have no idea why this is but it is.

    As to E'P's point, that makes sense with what limited understanding I have of networking concepts. I wonder if WoW uses UDP? At the very least I know the positioning of their data centers makes for substantially better routing. Although I could have sworn my latency to Gilgamesh was around 100ms which isn't amazing but it's all that bad (for an FPS it would be noticeable but shouldn't really be noticeable for an MMO). By comparison, the latency I feel in FFXIV, were I to compare it to my days of competitive UT2K4, would be like I was playing Bombing Run at 300-400ms.
    Also HI E'P'!
    (0)
    Last edited by Synovius; 09-01-2015 at 11:14 AM.
    Lala Swell - Death and Taxes
    You can lead a man to fish in water, but you should never throw two or more birds in a glass house... or something like that

  5. #5
    Player
    Raist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,457
    Character
    Raist Soulforge
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Synovius View Post
    Thanks for the replies.

    As to it not being server-side and it being with our connection, I'm afraid to report that this isn't an issue isolated to me or even 2 or 3 or 5 people. This is an issue spread across literally everyone I've ever raided with. This is through 100mbps connections, through using Battleping or WTFast or even through VPNing to locations close to the data center. This is an issue with FFXIV and not with our machines or our connections. For example, here are my stats:

    i5 2500K CPU
    GTX980 4GB GPU
    8GB RipJaws DDR3 RAM
    Intel SSD
    100mbps down / ~20mbps up

    This is an issue with the game and with the servers or the way the game handles collision detection/positioning. I can even make a video if you want of me running directly through the balls on AS4 to have them not explode. I've even done this on AS3 where I've accidentally side-stepped through the little ball that comes out in the last phase only to have it not explode (thankfully in this case).

    All I can say is that were I to fire up a game like WoW (I don't play WoW anymore because I find it boring and old), the responsiveness of the game is extremely crisp and exact. Things are far more fluid and synchronized there. I have no idea why this is but it is.

    Also HI E'P'!
    VPN'ing to the tunnel nearest the endpoint has been shown to not always improve things...the reason being you may still be hitting the congested networks in the same area you hit without the VPN. I myself have found more stable connections going through the midwest then back over (I'm on the East Coast). I've even seen one VPN that reported it's geolocation as Hungary respond more consistently than one to Montreal (though it was notably slower, but it didn't spike all over the place). I recently demonstrated this with my TunnelBear account on these forums.

    It all depends on where your particular problems stem from. If there are issues with local segments--you can still have the same issues with a VPN, because even though you are now encrypted you are still physically on the same medium. If those problems are because of too many people physically on the line--bypassing the shaping filters with encryption is going to have a minimal impact. If the problem is in/around Level3's over-utilized exchange points for Montreal out of the North East, and the VPN is still going through those same exchanges---you will still have the same problems. BUT...if you are able to switch it up and get on to Cogent, TATA, TiNet/GTT...then things might improve. (Those URL's are links to their network maps...notice how they service the same regions? It means ISP's often have options on who they peer with.)

    And that is why you see it happen to large groups at once...they are getting shunted through the same congested corridors. Ormuco currently lists peering with 5 major ISP's:


    AS701 Verizon Business/UUnet
    AS3356 Level 3 Communications, Inc.
    AS3257 Tinet SpA
    AS6453 TATA COMMUNICATIONS (AMERICA) INC
    AS174 Cogent Communications
    (source: Eidos/Ormuco ASN report for the Canadian subnet 199.91.189.0/24 from Hurricane Electric's BGP tool kit)

    Notice those percentages in the pie chart. If any one of those is having issues, it is affecting potentially at least 15-28% of all traffic. If it is TWO ISP's having issues, you could be in the realm of 31-50% of all traffic being affected.

    That is why your WoW experience doesn't quite cut it. Last I recall, they didn't have servers in Montreal...the addresses listed there for the Americas come back with geolocation data for New Jersey and California.
    (0)
    Last edited by Raist; 09-01-2015 at 11:52 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    While this information is all very interesting and informative, it doesn't change the fact that the poor performance of this game related to latency/lag/response time/whatever-you-want-to-refer-to-it-as affects literally everyone I've spoken too. Just an hour spent on ANY WoW server - even one across the United States from you (I live in EST and often played on PST servers) - yield crispness and seemingly immediate response times where moving out of an AoE a the very last split second is perfectly fine, moving into an AoE buff buffs you literally the split second you arrive in it and a Warrior's Charge ability tracks you every point of the way from your source to destination - so much so that you can be stunned mid-charge at any point and you will freeze immediately at that location.

    So whether it's better data center locations (or more of them), or working with ISPs for better routing or reduction in any throttling (if that is even occurring), Square Enix needs to do something and do something relatively fast or their best days for this game are going to now be behind them. I've been unsuccessful at bringing a single friend over from GW2 or WoW strictly due to the poor performance of this game with respect to latency and response times. As an aside, they also often site the 2.5s GCD in this game compared to the significantly faster GCDs of games like GW2, Rift, and WoW (and most MMOs for that matter). And while I personally don't mind the 2.5s GCD and I feel that folks can easily get used to it, when you combine this slower pace of play with poor server conditions, you have a recipe for a very, VERY negative perception about how this game plays.
    (0)
    Last edited by Synovius; 09-01-2015 at 01:33 PM.
    Lala Swell - Death and Taxes
    You can lead a man to fish in water, but you should never throw two or more birds in a glass house... or something like that

  7. #7
    Player
    Raist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,457
    Character
    Raist Soulforge
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Synovius View Post
    While this information is all very interesting and informative, it doesn't change the fact that the poor performance of this game related to latency/lag/response time/whatever-you-want-to-refer-to-it-as affects literally everyone I've spoken too. Just an hour spent on ANY WoW server - even one across the United States from you (I live in EST and often played on PST servers) - yield crispness and seemingly immediate response times where moving out of an AoE a the very last split second is perfectly fine, moving into an AoE buff buffs you literally the split second you arrive in it and a Warrior's Charge ability tracks you every point of the way from your source to destination - so much so that you can be stunned mid-charge at any point and you will freeze immediately at that location.

    So whether it's better data center locations (or more of them), or working with ISPs for better routing or reduction in any throttling (if that is even occurring), Square Enix needs to do something and do something relatively fast or their best days for this game are going to now be behind them. I've been unsuccessful at bringing a single friend over from GW2 or WoW strictly due to the poor performance of this game with respect to latency and response times. As an aside, they also often site the 2.5s GCD in this game compared to the significantly faster GCDs of games like GW2, Rift, and WoW (and most MMOs for that matter). And while I personally don't mind the 2.5s GCD and I feel that folks can easily get used to it, when you combine this slower pace of play with poor server conditions, you have a recipe for a very, VERY negative perception about how this game plays.
    It doesn't apply to everyone you've spoken to all the time. Guess you missed that I have no such issues...and there are many others like me. You apparently have issues with how your data is traversing the internet. There are MANY others here who also don't. The reason is simply that they are routed differently. Some get it from their ISP's efforts while others are doing it via a VPN.

    And no, I don't rely on a VPN for this game. I used one off and on during the first months of the 2.0 relaunch, mostly as a tool for demonstration to my ISP's tier2 and tier3 techs when things would go south. Eventually they stopped going through the checklist every time I sent them a dump of traces, pings, and modem logs and just went to work tracking down the problem and fixing it for me.

    Ultimately we narrowed down some localized issues to failing hardware at the head end--was actually a device that had been in play since Clinton was in office and was on it's last leg. Still haven't been put back on a dedicated gateway for Florence yet...but the Conway one isn't too bad. Most days.

    They still have some upstream issues to address in the Carolinas...but we have seen much improvement in the last year. But we have to stay on them though...it is Time Warner after all. Their forums are constantly lit up with complaints...a large part of it is upstream issues(though there are still a lot of local channel alignment issues---still a lot of outdated hardware in play). The biggest change though is likely bound to us pushing them to keep us away from Level3 as much as possible. Seems to be one of the more common weak links in the routing.

    But...if people aren't willing to look at the facts or listen to reason....guess we may not see any lasting dramatic improvements for them anytime soon.

    EDIT:
    Out of curiosity...I booted the laptop to take some snapshots. Here is some quick data on the route I take to my lobby server for Midgard (trying to avoid spamming the game servers themselves for these thing), followed by the routing to the two WoW servers in North America for a comparison. Note the GeoData for these IP's are Montreal, New Jersey, and California from a laptop on Wi-Fi in South Carolina:

    Code:
    C:\Windows\System32>tracert neolobby02.ffxiv.com
    
    Tracing route to neolobby02.ffxiv.com [199.91.189.74]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:
    
      1     1 ms     2 ms     1 ms  LPTSRV [10.10.100.1]
      2    26 ms    30 ms    27 ms  cpe-75-176-160-1.sc.res.rr.com [75.176.160.1]
      3    26 ms    23 ms    20 ms  cpe-024-031-198-005.sc.res.rr.com [24.31.198.5]
      4    13 ms    11 ms    15 ms  clmasoutheastmyr-rtr2.sc.rr.com [24.31.196.210]
      5    23 ms    29 ms    27 ms  be33.drhmncev01r.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.180]
      6    28 ms    29 ms    30 ms  ge-0-3-0.chrlncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.173]
      7    31 ms    33 ms    34 ms  bu-ether34.atlngamq46w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.48]
      8    31 ms    30 ms    29 ms  0.ae1.pr0.atl20.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.177]
      9    30 ms    28 ms    31 ms  te0-0-0-10.ccr21.atl02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.12.109]
     10    31 ms    30 ms    30 ms  be2050.ccr41.atl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.0.165]
     11    43 ms    43 ms    44 ms  be2112.ccr41.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.7.157]
     12    47 ms    47 ms    50 ms  be2148.ccr41.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.31.118]
     13    52 ms    53 ms    51 ms  be2106.ccr21.alb02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3.50]
     14    56 ms    57 ms    56 ms  be2088.ccr21.ymq02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.43.17]
     15    61 ms    60 ms    61 ms  38.122.42.34
     16    58 ms    57 ms    58 ms  192.34.76.10
     17    63 ms    65 ms    58 ms  199.91.189.242
     18    59 ms    58 ms    59 ms  199.91.189.74
    
    Trace complete.
    
    Ping statistics for 199.91.189.74:
        Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
        Minimum = 54ms, Maximum = 58ms, Average = 56ms
    Code:
    C:\Windows\System32>tracert 12.129.222.10
    
    Tracing route to 12.129.222.10 over a maximum of 30 hops
    
      1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  LPTSRV [10.10.100.1]
      2    33 ms    29 ms    29 ms  cpe-75-176-160-1.sc.res.rr.com [75.176.160.1]
      3    25 ms    27 ms    31 ms  cpe-024-031-198-005.sc.res.rr.com [24.31.198.5]
      4    22 ms    23 ms    35 ms  clmasoutheastmyr-rtr2.sc.rr.com [24.31.196.210]
      5    27 ms    25 ms    28 ms  be33.drhmncev01r.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.180]
      6    29 ms    28 ms    29 ms  ae14.chrlncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.25]
      7    32 ms    33 ms    33 ms  bu-ether24.atlngamq46w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.18]
      8    38 ms    37 ms    37 ms  66.109.1.255
      9    32 ms    31 ms    39 ms  0.ae2.pr1.atl20.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.188]
     10    29 ms    31 ms    30 ms  ix-14-0.tcore1.A56-Atlanta.as6453.net [64.86.113.37]
     11    33 ms    33 ms    33 ms  192.205.36.217
     12    47 ms    49 ms    49 ms  12.122.29.54
     13    47 ms    49 ms    48 ms  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.1.174]
     14    47 ms    47 ms    49 ms  12.123.250.117
     15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     18  ^C
    
    <I stopped the trace, as I hit their firewall as detailed in their guide. Also unable to ping it>
    Code:
    C:\Windows\System32>tracert 199.108.62.157
    
    Tracing route to 199.108.62.157 over a maximum of 30 hops
    
      1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  LPTSRV [10.10.100.1]
      2    29 ms    24 ms    28 ms  cpe-75-176-160-1.sc.res.rr.com [75.176.160.1]
      3    33 ms    27 ms    29 ms  cpe-024-031-198-005.sc.res.rr.com [24.31.198.5]
      4    12 ms    13 ms    14 ms  clmasoutheastmyr-rtr2.sc.rr.com [24.31.196.210]
      5    23 ms    24 ms    24 ms  be33.drhmncev01r.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.180]
      6    28 ms    29 ms    30 ms  ge-0-3-0.chrlncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.173]
      7    31 ms    32 ms    33 ms  bu-ether34.atlngamq46w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.48]
      8    37 ms    29 ms    38 ms  66.109.1.255
      9    31 ms    32 ms    32 ms  0.ae3.pr1.atl20.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.190]
     10    30 ms    28 ms    33 ms  ix-14-0.tcore1.A56-Atlanta.as6453.net [64.86.113.37]
     11    48 ms    45 ms    45 ms  if-13-2.tcore1.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [64.86.113.10]
     12    43 ms    44 ms    46 ms  if-2-2.tcore2.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.1]
     13    47 ms    48 ms    47 ms  192.205.34.245
     14    47 ms    46 ms    49 ms  cr1.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.113.42]
     15    46 ms    44 ms    45 ms  12.123.250.37
     16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     18     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     19  ^C
    <again, hitting their security...so can't ping this one either>
    Notice a few very important things about this data:

    1.) No more XO.net and no Level3 hops at all in any of those routes...these were frequently fingered as major offenders in our testing.
    2.) Fairly tight, and consistently low response times throughout the entire route.
    3.) No circular/redundancies in the routing (we frequently see traces return the SAME level3 hops back to back in a single trace)
    4.) Response times are mostly in keeping with distance--no major spikes disproportionate to the distance
    (note that I go to Conway/Myrtle Beach and then to Columbia first--problems in Florence has resulted in strange band-aids. At one point, I went to Hilton Head first. Believe it or not...in both cases this sling-shotting proved much more stable)

    Basically...these are "clean" and consistent routes. As a result, my gameplay is also stable and responsive...even when people are streaming to the Roku's.

    Oh yeah... and barring ONE incident when TWC thought they caught an exception between Ormuco and SE---we haven't been in contact with them at all.

    This was managed through Time Warner.


    Edit 2:
    0.o just after posting that data, they rebooted my modem....and my route has now changed. Must be some maintenance going on or something---I'm peering with Cogent now instead of TATA:
    Code:
    Tracing route to neolobby02.ffxiv.com [199.91.189.74]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:
    
      1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  LPTSRV [10.10.100.1]
      2    33 ms    29 ms    27 ms  cpe-75-176-160-1.sc.res.rr.com [75.176.160.1]
      3    24 ms    32 ms    30 ms  cpe-024-031-198-005.sc.res.rr.com [24.31.198.5]
      4    12 ms    12 ms    25 ms  clmasoutheastmyr-rtr2.sc.rr.com [24.31.196.210]
      5    26 ms    22 ms    27 ms  be33.drhmncev01r.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.180]
      6    26 ms    29 ms    30 ms  ge-0-3-0.chrlncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.173]
      7    31 ms    32 ms    31 ms  bu-ether34.atlngamq46w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.48]
      8    33 ms    52 ms    73 ms  0.ae1.pr0.atl20.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.177]
      9    31 ms    29 ms    30 ms  te0-0-0-10.ccr21.atl02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.12.109]
     10    30 ms    30 ms    31 ms  be2050.ccr41.atl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.0.165]
     11    43 ms    44 ms    43 ms  be2112.ccr41.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.7.157]
     12    49 ms    47 ms    48 ms  be2148.ccr41.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.31.118]
     13    52 ms    52 ms    52 ms  be2106.ccr21.alb02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3.50]
     14    56 ms    57 ms    58 ms  be2088.ccr21.ymq02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.43.17]
     15    70 ms    72 ms    72 ms  38.122.42.34
     16    55 ms    59 ms    57 ms  192.34.76.10
     17    56 ms    57 ms    59 ms  199.91.189.242
     18    56 ms    57 ms    57 ms  199.91.189.74
    
    Trace complete.
    Cogent isn't typically as solid as it has been with TATA (will often get some 150-200ms hiccups once in a while with Cogent)---but it is NOTHING like the massive spikes we see with Level3 in play...talking full on 1000+ starred events. As in full-on one second pauses (or longer) with Level3 when they misbehave (and that's not tracerts mind you--straight pings).

    Again... Time Warner just did this. Not Square-Enix.
    (0)
    Last edited by Raist; 09-01-2015 at 03:51 PM. Reason: data for demonstration

  8. #8
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Out of curiosity, Raist, have you played WoW at all? I think if you had it would be immediately apparent how much more responsive and crisp the gameplay is. And, again, I don't even like the game now because I found WoD to be boring. However, there is absolutely no denying how responsive the game is compared to FFXIV - and this is even while playing on a server located across North America from me.

    Either way, I will do some pinging and tracert when I get home here shortly to Gilgamesh and report the results here.
    (0)
    Lala Swell - Death and Taxes
    You can lead a man to fish in water, but you should never throw two or more birds in a glass house... or something like that

  9. #9
    Player
    Raist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,457
    Character
    Raist Soulforge
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Been at this for nearly 20 years now...back to the days of dial-up and the introduction of residential broadband to our area that only offered 128k to 2mbit bandwidth plans that costed a premium of up to $70 a month---and that was bundled or yearly contract pricing. Online space flight sim, FPS, RTS, MMORPG, video conferencing/VOIP, regular streaming A/V....been there and done it all. Hosted content off old x86 platforms that would be a toaster compared to today's standards (were a lot of games where you hosted missions and maps locally on your machine--the game server was just for matchmaking).

    We have always had to wrangle with latency across the internet. Still the same now as it was then...often the great equalizer (or punisher depending on how good/bad yours is). Content can be served on the best and most expertly optimized hardware at the endpoint...and a flaky router in Cleveland can kill a group of users' service in a heartbeat.

    The servers and this game are plenty responsive enough. We have frequently found that unreliable sessions across the internet cause a major chunk of the issues. This has been repeatedly affirmed on these forums...in general, people with good transit have a good gaming experience. Granted there have been issues on SE's side in specific cases, but in the general scope of things those are the exceptions. The general consensus is bad session means bad game play.
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    Last edited by Raist; 09-02-2015 at 05:33 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    That still doesn't address the idea that WoW's gameplay is extremely crisp and responsive even when going across a continent while FFXIV's responsiveness is very, very poor. Just a few examples from my latest DF run in Fractal Continuum:

    - On the jump pads in the last room, without sprint popped, I am able to run completely over the glowing arrow by 3-4 steps before I actually get launched to the next platform.
    - I had a Firestarter proc that I saved until there was a full 1s left on the buff. When I went to use it, it "consumed" the Firestarter proc and the Fire III animation went off but no damage was done and I did not receive my 3 AF stacks for it.
    - Twice during the second boss (the minotaur), I was able to complete a Fire IV cast while only a bit beyond halfway through it despite the cast of "Deafening Groan" going off which knocks everyone back and should have interrupted casting.

    The above are things I went ahead and allowed to happen for the purposes of demonstration and ALL are things I have to personally plan ahead for when playing this game but NEVER would have to plan ahead for while playing WoW. In raids, I know that I need to use Firestarter with 2s or more left on it or I won't get credit for it. I know that, if there's any kind of reactive AoE or "collision" that needs to take place, I should run to the correct spot and stand there for a solid 1-2s to ensure the server registers that I was there. In raids, I use the poor performance to my advantage to complete casts that realistically should have been interrupted or not gone off due to a phase transition.

    What's more is that I'm not the only one doing this. Our entire raid does this every raid night. Do you know how many times we wiped to AS3 simply because the server didn't pick up that our off-tank and healer were standing on top of each other for a full second yet the damage-increased debuff didn't trade from the off-tank to the healer? We went as far as having a waymark as a designated spot and I watched for pull after pull after pull where the appropriate healer and off-tank would run to the A marker and literally stand on top of each other for a full second or two only to sometimes see the buff not be transfered and thus cause an immediate wipe.

    This is not a client-side issue that I or anyone individually can resolve. At worst, this is a server-side issue that Square Enix needs to address or, at best, this is an ISP issue that Square Enix needs to address directly with the ISPs.

    Like you, I've been at this for over a decade. I'm 33 and have worked as a web developer since 20 years of age. I love this game but if the poor performance of the servers doesn't get addressed, the best days for this game are behind it.

    FYI: I just ran a tracert just like yours and my route is even faster than yours...
    Code:
    Tracing route to 199.108.62.157 over a maximum of 30 hops
    
      1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  CISCO52642 [192.168.1.1]
      2    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  home.Home [192.168.200.1]
      3    17 ms    17 ms    21 ms  RO1-DSL-208-102-248-1.fuse.net [208.102.248.1]
      4    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  172.17.74.18
      5    18 ms    17 ms    17 ms  EV-ZT-1.EVE2.core.fuse.net [216.68.14.58]
      6    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  EVE2.EVE1.core.fuse.net [216.68.14.44]
      7    18 ms    17 ms    17 ms  te0-0-2-2.nr11.b016343-1.cvg02.atlas.cogentco.co
    m [38.122.234.101]
      8    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  te0-0-1-1.rcr11.cvg02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.24
    .0.125]
      9    20 ms    20 ms    20 ms  te0-2-0-0.rcr21.ind01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
    .84.166]
     10    23 ms    24 ms    23 ms  te4-3.ccr01.sbn01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.27.
    82]
     11    28 ms    27 ms    27 ms  te0-10-1-0.ccr41.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.5
    4.80.149]
     12    27 ms    27 ms    27 ms  be2216.ccr41.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.24
    .202]
     13    27 ms    31 ms    27 ms  att.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.12.86]
     14    30 ms    27 ms    27 ms  cr1.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.133.34]
     15    33 ms    32 ms    32 ms  12.123.251.17
     16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     18     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     19     *        *        *     Request timed out.
     20  ^C
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    Last edited by Synovius; 09-02-2015 at 05:55 AM.
    Lala Swell - Death and Taxes
    You can lead a man to fish in water, but you should never throw two or more birds in a glass house... or something like that

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