Savage Alexander and the Paladin Exodus

[Sove92]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...the_design_of/

Here's a good post about the real issue, it's not that the PLD is too weak, it' that Savage Gordias was catered for DRK and how badly DRK was designed.

Looking at Alexander, let's ask ourselves this: if more of the magic damage was shifted to be physical, would there be any easier of a time clearing these harder floors? The answer is no. While PLD would have the survivability they'd lack the damage. On the same note, while DRK would have the damage, they'd lack the survivability. In fact I think that we would see even fewer groups that have cleared A3s and I don't think A4S would have been cleared at all if that were the case. The reason is because the DPS checks are so obnoxious that even doing mechanics correctly is not enough to deserve a clear in the eyes of SE. While I think it's okay to have an enrage timer, I do not think it is okay to have them as tight as they are on EVERY SINGLE FLOOR. It would be fine if there was a tight check on one floor (kind of like Patchwerk from WoW's Naxx), just to make sure you can do it. In fact I thought that's what Faust was supposed to be. I don't think PLD is bad, I think SE made a poor design choice by making an entire raid that catered to the flawed kit of DRK which in turn created the illusion that PLD was somehow awful.


Ask yourselves this, if PLD did receive buffs but SE continued to make the rest of the floors like A3S and A4s would it change anything? Personally, I don't think so. What if they made it so that everything was mostly physical again and lowered the tight dps checks while placing more of an emphasis on mechanics? Then we'd have the same issue we do now, only the shoe would be on the other foot.

Ofc it also doesn't help that PLD and DRK are forced to compete together because thanks to the ridiculous DPS checks, WAR blows both of them out of the water by being an absolute must-have.

[Kyne_Lyons]

Paladin is too weak though. How effectively a job performs is relative to the content. Make all damage 100% blockable and you still need Dark Knight to pass DPS checks. Paladins aren't being benched due to mitigation, though it is just insult to injury.

[Brian_]

That reddit point was already addressed in the comments.

You know what would happen if content shifted back to being primarily physical? Every progression team would just bring 2 WARs. Their raid DPS advantage over PLDs more than makes up for the LB penalty. You would need to cater very specifically to PLDs in order for them to return to content. Why? Because they are in a terrible state regardless of the meta.

Also, it's not fair to ask MTs to gear and learn 2 classes just because the raid meta is shifting back and forth. Especially when you gear gate behind job specific tome gear. Wouldn't it make more sense to balance classes so they can complete content regardless of the raid meta? How is it acceptable that for 6 months at a time an entire class and its player base is just asked to take a break from end-game?

[Zumi]

Only real problem is Paladin's non existent aoe and it costing a gcd to switch stances.

War - overpower 120 potency (cone aoe)
drk - unleash 100 potency (aoe around dk)

I would give the enhanced flash trait also does 80 potency damage because the trait currently adds blind pretty much does nothing endgame wise due to how like everything in a raid resists blind. 80 lower then dark because paladin still has circle of scorn. Otherwise the class is fine.

Sucks to be a paladin in A2S because you are flashing all those goblins to get hate while doing no damage while a war and dark are damaging them with their aoe.

[Phoebus]

Only real problem is Paladin's non existent aoe and it costing a gcd to switch stances.

War - overpower 120 potency (cone aoe)
drk - unleash 100 potency (aoe around dk)

I would give the enhanced flash trait also does 80 potency damage because the trait currently adds blind pretty much does nothing endgame wise due to how like everything in a raid resists blind. 80 lower then dark because paladin still has circle of scorn. Otherwise the class is fine.

Sucks to be a paladin in A2S because you are flashing all those goblins to get hate while doing no damage while a war and dark are damaging them with their aoe.

Hate to be that guy, but DRK usually use abyssal drain (120 pot), also i'm glad i jumped ship after the 3rd week and didn't waste more eso on PLD.

Thank you Kyne for sticking with it to give us the hard proof that the class is in dire straits.

[Hix]

Here's a fix - add a 5% dmg taken debuff for 30 seconds on Circle of Scorn or Flash. If the PLD isn't going to be doing any DPS, he can at least give everyone else more DPS.

[Erim-Nelhah]

I guess that's why we've seen so many Paladins clear A4S.

Viable does not necessarily mean "capable doing the content with less than the expected ilvl", it just means "capable of doing the contetnt at the expected ilvl" (quite a difference there). And with that said, I think the "expected ilvl" for A4S is likely about i205.

Note: I still think PLD needs some sort of buff.

--Erim Nelhah

[Kyne_Lyons]

Nearing 19 pages, still waiting on word from upstairs. Still 0 Paladin clears.

[Kyne_Lyons]

A JP Group with a Paladin has the fight at 1% as of last night. Something to note after checking some of these players on Lodestone is that pretty much everybody is wearing full i210 save for some melded accessories on the tanks and of course, i200 weapons. Is this getting clearer to everyone that gear doesn't fix Paladin's terrible design? Do people now understand why I made the switch to Dark Knight, and why pretty much every Paladin at end-game has done the same? If that Paladin had been an equally geared Dark Knight, they would have already beaten this fight. When you're decked in the best possible gear in the game, beating this fight as Paladin is still playing the game on Extreme Challenge mode. Why?

[NoRyoKu]

I still don't understand why SE doesn't respond in any way to this kind of thread. I guess it's because it's a catch 22 for them cause acknowledging that paladin is underpowered is acknowledging failure and bad raid design. On the other hand, if they think paladins are in a good spot. It's clearly not true. SO they choose to let this question unanswered and try to get away with the issue.

I know SE reads forums and feedback, they MUST be aware of this topic. Just very curious why they haven't commented on this yet. (maybe the outcry for astro buff was on a bigger part of the population and decided to deal with it asap and since not many paladin are on A4S, it's not worth commenting on it????? )

I really don't know