Red Mage (Tank) Please!

[SlyTribal]

Many people are arguing about the new jobs and I think Red Mage as a tank would be a unique concept.

Just gonna be the first to say it, Rdm was capable/used as a tank in XI for a long time. So, XI did it first.

[Welsper59]

Just gonna be the first to say it, Rdm was capable/used as a tank in XI for a long time. So, XI did it first.

Actually they weren't really capable as a tank, so much as just solo-capable. Holding threat as an RDM was next to impossible unless anyone you happened to be with did almost nothing.

[SlyTribal]

Actually they weren't really capable as a tank, so much as just solo-capable. Holding threat as an RDM was next to impossible unless anyone you happened to be with did almost nothing.

They were able to generate a great amount of hate by using certain spells in good rotation or via general spamming, even to the point of pulling hate where Paladin's struggled to take it off. However they lowered the enmity of the spells at a later point, ruining the Rdm tanking days.

[Blood-Aki]

Actually they weren't really capable as a tank, so much as just solo-capable. Holding threat as an RDM was next to impossible unless anyone you happened to be with did almost nothing.

I wouldn't exactly say that, i saw a few RDM tank fafnir and keep hate, Cure 4 was a MAJOR enimity grabber, especially with +enimity gear. it was indeed done.

[Lemuria]

I wouldn't exactly say that, i saw a few RDM tank fafnir and keep hate, Cure 4 was a MAJOR enimity grabber, especially with +enimity gear. it was indeed done.

You could only do that if the DPS held back. Even 'proper' tanks had difficulty holding back aggro from many DPS in the late game simply because of the crazy damage they could output. Red Mage wasn't terrible in the aggro stakes, but there wasn't much enmity gear to go around for them, and they had limited strength since you would basically NEED sub war for provoke which killed some of your magical potential.

At any rate, we have 3 tanks, 3 healers, 2 casters, 2 melee DPS and 2 ranged physical DPS. Surely we need an extra melee DPS, an extra ranged physical and a new caster before we start worrying about more tanks?

[SlyTribal]

At any rate, we have 3 tanks, 3 healers, 2 casters, 2 melee DPS and 2 ranged physical DPS. Surely we need an extra melee DPS, an extra ranged physical and a new caster before we start worrying about more tanks?

3 Melee; Monk, Dragoon and Ninja

[Lemuria]

3 Melee; Monk, Dragoon and Ninja

Very true, my mistake.

Still, adding a 4th tank won't suddenly make more people want to tank. Dark Knight was proof of that. If people choose not to tank, there's nothing anyone can do about it. There was a huge number of Dark Knights when the expansion first launched, and it died out as quickly as it surged. Nowdays, tanks are the one class you're always waiting on for Expert roulette which is why I've taken to doing most of my Eso farming on my Paladin.

He may not wear as heavy armor as the other tanks, but he makes up for it with Earth and Wind magic making it easier for him to block attacks with each and enhance his body and use the wind to increase his evasion. He also has a magic shield which he can switch on and off.

Outside of Utsusemi in FFXI, it would be folly to try and create a tank based around evasion. Because of the RNG nature of hits and misses, you could easily go for periods where every blow lands, or every blow misses making it severely underpowered and overpowered at the same time.

Some would see the job as a healer MP sponge, other's would herald it as the second coming of Louisoux. If they ever DID make it a tank, surely going the Rune Fencer route would work better, with magical defenses you can swap in and out of to defend against particular threats.

[cold52]

yall know tank really is the closest thing that makes sence for a red mage think about it.

a red mage is known for its ability to use both white magic and black magic while still using a melee weapon.

no other role suits that better then tank

white magic for defensive skills and heal skills
black magic for its offensive skills or buffs

then it still has room for its melee skills

all it would need then is something to help make it stand out between the other tanks.

now of course people dont wanna see it end up as a tank but ya know thats what was said about warrior and dark knight but at the end of the day if square makes it that way thats the way it will be.

also it will amuse me to see all of the red mage jokes about there role icon being blue if it happened. >

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Tank is the most boring role in MMO. please don't waste good jobs like Red Mage, Samurai, and Mystic Knight for it.

*THIS*

Is why we need a tank class that isn't like the other tank classes. All the DPS classes have a unique mechanic.

Dark Knight is an Emo Paladin with some AOE attached and magic defense, literally no difference besides that.
Paladin is 1-2-3 rotation flash aggro. Has physical stuff instead of magical. More physical defense then DRK.
Warrior is push a button every so often when you need it. Has some debuffs you need to keep up.

That is literally all we have complexity wise. DPS / Healers are amazingly different. Scholar/WHM/Astrologer all play DIFFERENT.

Very true, my mistake.

Still, adding a 4th tank won't suddenly make more people want to tank. Dark Knight was proof of that. If people choose not to tank, there's nothing anyone can do about it. There was a huge number of Dark Knights when the expansion first launched, and it died out as quickly as it surged. Nowdays, tanks are the one class you're always waiting on for Expert roulette which is why I've taken to doing most of my Eso farming on my Paladin.Outside of Utsusemi in FFXI, it would be folly to try and create a tank based around evasion. Because of the RNG nature of hits and misses, you could easily go for periods where every blow lands, or every blow misses making it severely underpowered and overpowered at the same time.

Some would see the job as a healer MP sponge, other's would herald it as the second coming of Louisoux. If they ever DID make it a tank, surely going the Rune Fencer route would work better, with magical defenses you can swap in and out of to defend against particular threats.

Hes not made "Just around Evasion"

As you can see.

Earth Shields, Mana Shields. He has a lot of sustain in hit kit. The Evasion is just cherries. He has other ways to reduce damage, but its around his RNG Mechanic.

I don't know why you so badly want rdm to be a tank. but this simply will not work.

I kind of don't like you going in my threads and saying negative things when you offer "no" solid proof it won't work when I have played games where it *gasp* DOES WORK. Monk in EQ2 for example was an evasion tank class that had spells. It was one of the best tanks in the game due to avoiding debuffs in some expansions since they dodged and evaded.

Actually, Blue mage, as it's already been said, would fit this nich better, Not red mage.

Why...why...WHY...why...WHY...WHY...why? Why? Why?... Why?

You always spew the same nonsense, then leave it at that. Its clear to me you have no imagination at all. You just saw whatever you want without providing any information after it. It is frustrating.

yall know tank really is the closest thing that makes sence for a red mage think about it.

a red mage is known for its ability to use both white magic and black magic while still using a melee weapon.

no other role suits that better then tank

white magic for defensive skills and heal skills
black magic for its offensive skills or buffs

then it still has room for its melee skills

all it would need then is something to help make it stand out between the other tanks.

now of course people dont wanna see it end up as a tank but ya know thats what was said about warrior and dark knight but at the end of the day if square makes it that way thats the way it will be.

also it will amuse me to see all of the red mage jokes about there role icon being blue if it happened. >

Yep, that was my same thought.

[Blood-Aki]

You could only do that if the DPS held back. Even 'proper' tanks had difficulty holding back aggro from many DPS in the late game simply because of the crazy damage they could output. Red Mage wasn't terrible in the aggro stakes, but there wasn't much enmity gear to go around for them, and they had limited strength since you would basically NEED sub war for provoke which killed some of your magical potential.

Yes, it was a daunting task to say the least, damage had to hold back and RDM tanks were only, in most cases used in dire "hold this NM untill everyone gets here" situations so it wasn't Optimal, but it did work.