What Roles would you like for Samurai and Red Mage?

[shao32]

whe need another tank, 3 tanks now are umbalance in therms of MT and OT, so whe need another good OT and samurai can dealt the job like a parry damage support and kick the warrior of the untouchable OT throne.

and for the ppl who say whe dont have any dps whith swords, ninjas use 2 ninjatos, are a little smalls swords, ravana and law weapons are very long swords for ninja too.

i don't care if make samurai like a dps but for me is more like a tank class, they need change the defense stads to make more unique the tanks jobs thats for sure.

for red mage, well whe need a new caster only have 2 now, a caster suppor can be nice to have a 3º support class and caster in same time, or meaby healer but i see the job more offensive really.

[Sully]

What if Samurai (if they add it) turns out to be a Physical Magic job?

[ChazNatlo]

I've passed the point where I don't care whether Samurai is a Tank or a DPS, but I'd like to point out that when people say "Share armour with Dragoon" they're typically talking about lower levels, where there are four basic armour types. Tank Armour, DPS Armour, Caster/Healer Armour, and Dragoon/Lancer Armour. Not the Top level Combat gear where the Tanks all share, the Casters both share, the healers all share, the Ranged DPS both share, and the Melee DPS all get their own.

Course, we could have Samurai be a tank, and bring in Sword Mage to share armour with the Dragoon at those levels. Though we're getting to the point where I am uncertain what sort of sword we could give them, and with everyone wanting Red Mage to be casting Enspells on themselves, they're basically fusing the two Jobs anyways.

[Shippuu]

And I don't agree with the "why should melee dps have to share gearsets?" argument. Bard also had their own gearset until Machinist came along. Casters share gearsets. Healers share gearsets (and usually share design with casters, the two being palette swaps with each other). Tanks share gearsets. Why should melee DPS have their own unique gearsets?

There's nothing wrong with DPS sharing gearsets. I only commented on why specifically must DRG share their gearset as the person mentioned "We need more mail wearing dps". And I simply asked...why? Why specifically DRG? Why not MNK? or Nin? If Samurai get added as a dps, they will most certainly be sharing a dps gearset with some existing job.

Gearset sharing does become a problem when you mix roles though. Such as having a dps wearing heavy fending armor where now they compete against tanks (Who already have to compete against each other) for gear.

I've passed the point where I don't care whether Samurai is a Tank or a DPS, but I'd like to point out that when people say "Share armour with Dragoon" they're typically talking about lower levels, where there are four basic armour types. Tank Armour, DPS Armour, Caster/Healer Armour, and Dragoon/Lancer Armour. Not the Top level Combat gear where the Tanks all share, the Casters both share, the healers all share, the Ranged DPS both share, and the Melee DPS all get their own.

The lower level armors don't really matter though. Half the time DRG is wearing the same "Disciple of War" armor everyone else is. The ones that are heavier armor for DRG are few and far between. And anything post 50 is all specific to each jobs, there is none of that stuff. This will be a future job, and likely start at a high level again, possible even starting at level 50 if the level cap gets raised in the next expansion. Meaning a job being able to wear that gear is pointless cause it could start at a level beyond where that gear exists.

[ChazNatlo]

This will be a future job, and likely start at a high level again, possible even starting at level 50 if the level cap gets raised in the next expansion. Meaning a job being able to wear that gear is pointless cause it could start at a level beyond where that gear exists.

Not arguing, just clarifying.

To speak to the quote, I'm feeling a little lazy so no quote or anything, but I had heard that supposedly the next expansion will be able to be accessed at a lower level than Heavensward. We MIGHT get another 30 and up (set of) Job(s). Which is about the point where Dragoon starts to near exclusively wear Light plate and Scale mail, outside green dungeon drops.

That said, I wouldn't mind a Samurai Tank. Contrary to your "favourite" argument partner so far, I use Samurai as a Tank. Bladegrasp is a hell of a move. I just wouldn't be too bent out of shape if it were a DPS. I'd be a little weirded out if they made it a healer.

[Shippuu]

Not arguing, just clarifying.

To speak to the quote, I'm feeling a little lazy so no quote or anything, but I had heard that supposedly the next expansion will be able to be accessed at a lower level than Heavensward. We MIGHT get another 30 and up (set of) Job(s). Which is about the point where Dragoon starts to near exclusively wear Light plate and Scale mail, outside green dungeon drops.

That said, I wouldn't mind a Samurai Tank. Contrary to your "favourite" argument partner so far, I use Samurai as a Tank. Bladegrasp is a hell of a move. I just wouldn't be too bent out of shape if it were a DPS. I'd be a little weirded out if they made it a healer.

Hm, I've not seen any mention of the next expansion being accessed lower, only that the next expansion will not require one to have done all the Heavensward content. I'd play samurai regardless of it's role, I just feel SAM is a clear cut choice for another tank as it easily still fits into the mold of what FFXIV depicts a tank as. There are tons of other options for DPS roles, but very few choices for tank roles and most of them are obscure and not requested at all.

[ChazNatlo]

There are tons of other options for DPS roles, but very few choices for tank roles and most of them are obscure and not requested at all.

Or the attempts to basically make anything a Tank. Red mage? Tank. Blue Mage? Tank. Geomancer? Tank. Sword Mage? Tank. Dancer? Tank. Gunner? Tank.

I mean, I can see all of those being Tanks, though maybe there are better Roles for them. And as You say, better choices for Tank. Like Samurai.

[Noxifer]

I've passed the point where I don't care whether Samurai is a Tank or a DPS, but I'd like to point out that when people say "Share armour with Dragoon" they're typically talking about lower levels, where there are four basic armour types. Tank Armour, DPS Armour, Caster/Healer Armour, and Dragoon/Lancer Armour. Not the Top level Combat gear where the Tanks all share, the Casters both share, the healers all share, the Ranged DPS both share, and the Melee DPS all get their own.

Nope, I'm talking about those higher level gear where tanks/casters/healers/rangedDPS have their shared gearsets, but melee DPS as of yet do not have anyone to share with =) I don't see anything wrong with that changing, and them getting other jobs to share gear with.

There's nothing wrong with DPS sharing gearsets. I only commented on why specifically must DRG share their gearset as the person mentioned "We need more mail wearing dps". And I simply asked...why? Why specifically DRG? Why not MNK? or Nin? If Samurai get added as a dps, they will most certainly be sharing a dps gearset with some existing job.

Gearset sharing does become a problem when you mix roles though. Such as having a dps wearing heavy fending armor where now they compete against tanks (Who already have to compete against each other) for gear.

I can't speak for the others making the SAM/DRG connection, but with me it's because my image of Samurai is a medium-heavy to heavy armour wearing kind of class/job. Which makes sense with Dragoon armour, since it wouldn't work to have Samurai share tank gear if it's not a tank job. But like I also said in the post you quoted: If Samurai is made with the lighter type of armour that it seems Yoshida envisioned it in, then it makes more sense to pair up SAM/MNK =D
(And like I said in my original post, if they make Red Mage a magic melee DPS, and have the base stat be Dex, it would make sense to let RDM/NIN share gear.)

[SendohJin]

Nope, I'm talking about those higher level gear where tanks/casters/healers/rangedDPS have their shared gearsets, but melee DPS as of yet do not have anyone to share with =) I don't see anything wrong with that changing, and them getting other jobs to share gear with.

you must have never seen the appearance of MNK and DRG gear from Binding Coil and Syrcus Tower. there was no reason why those sets couldn't have been shared because appearance and statwise they are basically the same. SE hasn't let either of those things dictate how they make gear, whether it's the same exact piece or not seems to be determined mostly by how much time they want people farming them.

[Noxifer]

you must have never seen the appearance of MNK and DRG gear from Binding Coil and Syrcus Tower. there was no reason why those sets couldn't have been shared because appearance and statwise they are basically the same. SE hasn't let either of those things dictate how they make gear, whether it's the same exact piece or not seems to be determined mostly by how much time they want people farming them.

The reason why they don't share gear is due to the numbers on them. Look at Def/Mdef numbers. While the Mdef is now equal (after the Devs realized the lower Mdef made DRG tank the floor more often than not with all the raid-wide magic damage), DRG gear has a higher Def number, since they're of the "medium heavy" category whereas MNK is of the "medium" category.
Allagan Cuirass of Striking vs. Allagan Cuirass of Maiming

The Guardian's Breastplate of Striking vs. The Guardian's Breastplate of Maiming

Appearance-wise, they're just palette swaps, yes, just as caster/healer gear is.