Reevaluation to Tanks Stances and Related Abilities

[pandabearcat]

Hmm I wonder how WoW does it oh right vengeance (is it resolve now?) and taunt giving threat bonus for 10 seconds.

Stances are silly and promote "untanklike" behavior.

Pretty much the only thing going in a tanks head is the healer good enough? Cool imma stay in dps stance.

I would much rather the choice for mitigation vs damage come from our abilities themselves rather than silly stances.

Alternatively, all stances ogcd on no wait the warriors are gonna jump on this one its what makes them a special snowflake waaahhhhhhhhh.

[RapBreon]

Hmm I wonder how WoW does it oh right vengeance (is it resolve now?) and taunt giving threat bonus for 10 seconds.

Stances are silly and promote "untanklike" behavior.

Pretty much the only thing going in a tanks head is the healer good enough? Cool imma stay in dps stance.

I would much rather the choice for mitigation vs damage come from our abilities themselves rather than silly stances.

Alternatively, all stances ogcd on no wait the warriors are gonna jump on this one its what makes them a special snowflake waaahhhhhhhhh.

I disagree! And that is all I can muster right now.

But seriously current WoW is aids, plz no.

[Phoenicia]

Hmm I wonder how WoW does it oh right vengeance (is it resolve now?) and taunt giving threat bonus for 10 seconds.

Stances are silly and promote "untanklike" behavior.

But even in WoW tanks had stances, Warrior had defensive stance, Pally had Divine Fervor or w/e, Druid had to be in bear form and DK needed to be in Frost Rune or whatever.

Stances simplify the need of separating Main-tank and Off-tank roles. Tanking? Turn on tank stance, pretending to be DPS/OT? Turn it off. What this game needs to fix this "silliness" and "untanklike behavior" problem is to make encounters require tank stances. Up the damage of auto attacks to a level where regen doesn't tick higher than the raid boss's auto-attack.

Stances going oGCD for non-WAR tanks is fine if WAR gets healed 25% of its current health when swapping as well. That would make them balanced.

[Launched]

Alternatively, all stances ogcd on no wait the warriors are gonna jump on this one its what makes them a special snowflake waaahhhhhhhhh.

Yeah, exactly. It's something that makes WAR's tank stance DIFFERENT from the other two, not better or worse. You can have off gcd stances as soon as the increased healing on Defiance is increased to 25%, it affects abilities, and heals WAR for 25% of its current hp. Those are areas that Defiance/Grit are better in, and changing them to off gcd would make them objectively better in every way.

[Asierid]

Stances are silly and promote "untanklike" behavior.

But I'm tanking it; not the healer or DPS. That's pretty "tanklike".

How about we just keep the choice to utilize cooldowns while in DPS stance so the change isn't even a numerical difference and the healers learn to not blame their mistakes on a DPS stance.

Course, this may be asking for a bit much around here.

[Dererk]

The only thing I could agree with OP on is.

#4. Only I don't care if it brakes a combo I'm fine with that what I don't like is having to guess when things will happen where I need to put it up in advance while I'm OT. I'd rather have a fast switch so I can grab the add when it pops than have to wait for gcd to be back up so I can activate it then again wait for gcd so I can pull it. Its frustrating.


In the other stuff of OP I can't see any of it going well. Only way I could Think is if they just gave the dps more dps because really people that's their job a tank is to hold hate while tanking. But even if they did that the tanks would still do this. SE tried to solve this by giving bonuse accuracy to tanks in tank stance and getting rid of acc on the new weapons but even this didn't solve it I mean the tank stance says give a % chance that hits will land.....what dose that even mean? There's no noticeable differences that it even helps.

They would have to either.
A. Increase the mitigation that's given in tank stances.
B. Severely reduce the damage penalty in tank stance.
C. Which I think may actually work because you only need a tank stance in a party and here it is.

Party dps buff while in tank stance.

You only need 1 tank really to be in a tank stance so have it buff the party's dps but not any tank in the party. This would give a new reason for the MT to keep it on while tanking. And it wouldn't be a stacking buff so it won't be over powered. This way you don't have to rely so much on a added MT dps in stuff.

[Donjo]

But I'm tanking it; not the healer or DPS. That's pretty "tanklike".

The primary duties of a Tank are fourfold.

1. Keep threat
2. Be effective at not dying
3. Enable the rest of your party to perform their roles efficiently
4. Ensure that the fight is as easy as possible for your party

Leaving your Tank Stance while Tanking...

1. Makes Threat more difficult to keep
2. Makes you less effective at not dying
3. Increases stress on the party and thus makes them less able to perform their roles efficiently
4. Increases the overall difficulty of the fight

It's not terribly tank-like at all. The OP appears to believe that the ability for Tanks to be so untank-like yet still clear content is an issue. Which it is. But, the stances aren't exactly the root of that particular problem. It's that content has inexplicably stopped attempting to severely challenge a Tank's ability to mitigate attacks. As I said in my reply earlier, there was once a time when Tanks were challenged enough in these respects that Tank Stances were much more necessary. This is no longer the case.

[RapBreon]

The primary duties of a Tank are fourfold.

1. Keep threat
2. Be effective at not dying
3. Enable the rest of your party to perform their roles efficiently
4. Ensure that the fight is as easy as possible for your party

Leaving your Tank Stance while Tanking...

1. Makes Threat more difficult to keep
2. Makes you less effective at not dying
3. Increases stress on the party and thus makes them less able to perform their roles efficiently
4. Increases the overall difficulty of the fight

It's not terribly tank-like at all. The OP appears to believe that the ability for Tanks to be so untank-like yet still clear content is an issue. Which it is. But, the stances aren't exactly the root of that particular problem. It's that content has inexplicably stopped attempting to severely challenge a Tank's ability to mitigate attacks. As I said in my reply earlier, there was once a time when Tanks were challenged enough in these respects that Tank Stances were much more necessary. This is no longer the case.

Three and four you literally made up. Stop being sneaky you!

The idea of having 'leadership' thrust upon them is one of the reasons tanking is so unappealing to people in the first place.

[Dererk]

Three and four you literally made up. Stop being sneaky you!

The idea of having 'leadership' thrust upon them is one of the reasons tanking is so unappealing to people in the first place.

She's not talking about leadership what she means is that if the dps and healers have to worry about ripping hate from a mob that the tank is fighting while not in tank stance then they aren't going to be able to go all out and put out their full damage. And healers will have to worry about their healing too. So ya 3 and 4 do make sense.

[RapBreon]

She's not talking about leadership what she means is that if the dps and healers have to worry about ripping hate from a mob that the tank is fighting while not in tank stance then they aren't going to be able to go all out and put out their full damage. And healers will have to worry about their healing too. So ya 3 and 4 do make sense.

Then it's either conflated with the threat point (one) or a non-tank specific duty (making shit easier can be attributed to every role, sometimes going quicker is easier!). Essentially, you're trying to inflate the list of job-specific duties than you actually have.

The other two points that I disagree with, which are leadership archetype duties - which is normally the tank, but not necessarily - or common duties, but it certainly shouldn't be mandatory to only tanking. I also don't necessarily agree that tanking less damage = easier, because context.