Samurai

[karateorangutang]

See, this would be an argument for such a thing if past FF games had stuck anywhere close to historical Samurai, but they don't, not by a long shot. Samurai in Final Fantasy has been more abstract in implementation than even Dark Knight who has a lot of consistency between games. Samurai does not. Not within FF that is. And if you go for historical accuracy then as others have stated, they wouldn't even use their swords.

Yes, they have strayed from the formula but a Samurai in FF has always wielded a 2 handed weapon. I'm just stating that is unlikely to change.

In Final Fantasy games, sometimes Samurai are heavy armored brawlers, sometimes they have a collection of supporting abilities, sometimes they're lightly armored quick attackers. In fact, the only thing they really have in common is the name samurai, and that they can equip weapons labeled as "Katana", but even then there's examples that stretch this, such as Auron who while his weapons are classified as Katana, they are almost all Broadswords or Greatswords in appearance. Dual wielding Katana are still using Katana and the argument for Samurai dual wielding is pretty much for the sole purpose to counter the argument of there being a supposed overlap with Dark Knight's Greatswords which is a pointless reason to not implement Samurai as potential Tanks.

At least samurai aren't running around casting magic spells at things. Auron was a vast exception due to the nature of the setting. You find me a single character outside of Yuna and Lulu that even slightly resemble some kind of medieval ideal. We have to take into account the world settings that they are in and timelines, as well as levels of technology and sciencentific knowledge. For all we know the alloy that Auron's sword was made out of an alloy with a weight similar to that of a classical katana. I have no delusion that FF Samurai are even close to the historical fact ( this is true of every single job in a fantasy game), but at least there is a historical knowledge to pull from. Samurai once existed, the knight who pulled dark power out of his soul to shape it and use it against his enemy did not.

[Shippuu]

At least samurai aren't running around casting magic spells at things.

Funny you say that, because in Final Fantasy Tactics samurai did pretty much exactly that. They cast spells from their katanas creating all manner of offensive and supportive abilities. These things were also boosted by their magick attack and not their physical attack stat.

I have no delusion that FF Samurai are even close to the historical fact ( this is true of every single job in a fantasy game), but at least there is a historical knowledge to pull from. *Samurai once existed, the knight who pulled dark power out of his soul to shape it and use it against his enemy did not.

Knight's existed and of course they had no dark magics. But Samurai in this game would be no different. It's a rough basis and that's it, whatever lore and abilities they give them will add flavor that is fantasy. In Tactics they summoned spirits from swords, in FFXI they were demon hunters, etc etc. It's no different then our current Paladin, which is just called Knight in the Japanese version. Their "Knights" wield holy esque magic abilities.

[karateorangutang]

Funny you say that, because in Final Fantasy Tactics samurai did pretty much exactly that. They cast spells from their katanas creating all manner of offensive and supportive abilities. These things were also boosted by their magick attack and not their physical attack stat.

Again, there are exceptions to this rule. BUT they still wielded a 2 handed katana and wore classical armor. I'm not talking history, but find me a dual wielding FF samurai.... there aren't any. FMV's don't count.

Knight's existed and of course they had no dark magics. But Samurai in this game would be no different. It's a rough basis and that's it, whatever lore and abilities they give them will add flavor that is fantasy. In Tactics they summoned spirits from swords, in FFXI they were demon hunters, etc etc. It's no different then our current Paladin, which is just called Knight in the Japanese version. Their "Knights" wield holy esque magic abilities.

Yeah, this is a semantic argument... and quite frankly doesn't have anything to do with my original argument. I could really care less if DRK is comparable to SAM in terms of historical accuracy. Give them laser guns for all I care, but what im talking about is people wanting dual wielding on a class that has never dual wielded in a FF game.

[Shippuu]

Yeah, this is a semantic argument... and quite frankly doesn't have anything to do with my original argument. I could really care less if DRK is comparable to SAM in terms of historical accuracy. Give them laser guns for all I care, but what im talking about is people wanting dual wielding on a class that has never dual wielded in a FF game.

The point is, just because they haven't dual wielded in past games, doesn't mean they can't in this one. It is a solution in the sense if the developers felt like a nother 2H sword wielder was overlapping existing jobs. They'd still be using weapons classified as "Katana". There have been plenty of times across all FF games where a job's iconic weapon is changed outright in it's iteration, FFXIV included (Bards using Bows). Making a dual wielding Samurai doesn't even change it's weapon, it's still a katana, only 2.

And as you've said elsewhere, SAM in FFXI could dual wield with appropriate sub jobs, as well as being able to use various other weapons, so the statement of "Samurai has never dual wielded in a FF game" is technically false. They could also equip Knives in FF5 (Their first iteration) as well as the "Swordmaster" job in Bravely Default which is the Samurai archetype could also equip Daggers. So while it's not their main weapon or even their best weapon, they still have some history of being able to equip these usually dual wielded weapons.


So as you've admitted, it's certainly more of a personal bias on your part. There are exceptions and this game's iteration of Samurai could very well be another one.

[karateorangutang]

The point is, just because they haven't dual wielded in past games, doesn't mean they can't in this one. It is a solution in the sense if the developers felt like a nother 2H sword wielder was overlapping existing jobs. They'd still be using weapons classified as "Katana". There have been plenty of times across all FF games where a job's iconic weapon is changed outright in it's iteration, FFXIV included (Bards using Bows). Making a dual wielding Samurai doesn't even change it's weapon, it's still a katana, only 2.

And as you've said elsewhere, SAM in FFXI could dual wield with appropriate sub jobs, as well as being able to use various other weapons, so the statement of "Samurai has never dual wielded in a FF game" is technically false. They could also equip Knives in FF5 (Their first iteration) as well as the "Swordmaster" job in Bravely Default which is the Samurai archetype could also equip Daggers. So while it's not their main weapon or even their best weapon, they still have some history of being able to equip these usually dual wielded weapons.

So as you've admitted, it's certainly more of a personal bias on your part. There are exceptions and this game's iteration of Samurai could very well be another one.

Ok, sure. If you wanna say that it could technically happen. Sure, I can agree with that.

I'm stating it is very improbable they will change that formula. Bard using bow made sense in this game because they needed a way to implement it. Making bard a DPS class, ( when this game has no support role) they needed a way to justify that damage. Mixing bard with archer made sense (to SE anyway). I would imagine we would see hybrid classes in the future as well, considering the limiting meta in the game. However, we already have a very dex based dual wielding sword class in this game. NIN already fills that role spectacularly.

Additionally, to your final fantasy tactics point, samurai were bringing out the spirit of the katana. It wasn't a arcane or holy magic, but something more in line with shinto ideals. This would certainly be a cool route for them to go with samurai. Something different then even the swordmaster or dual wielder.

FFXI was a strange excpection cause every single class and job could dual wield. My ranger dual wielded, warrior dual wielded, low lvl BLM dual wielded, but SAM didnt benefit from dual wielding. Even in a game where dual wielding with /nin was one of the best options available, SE went out of their way to make sure that it was detrimental for the samurai to do so. Making samurai a dual wielding class doesn't fulfill any kind of role requirements or further job additions, because dual wielding is already fulfilled by ninja.

Our arguments are differing in our final point. Your arguing that it's technically possible. I'll concede on that point. Spear samurai, naginata samurai, etc. would all be valid builds for samurai. My point is, that it's possible but very unlikely. Even if you take all the exceptions your argument is so fixated on it still comprises a small percentage of how samurai has been represented in the FF series.

Could it happen? Sure.
I just highly doubt it.