Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    Gist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    107
    Character
    Jerrard Coeurl
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60

    So you want to be a tank?

    Yes, yes I do. However, where do I start? I've never tanked before as I main WHM. Are some tanks better than others? What is the "premier" tank class? Are there any specific tank classes in high demand?

    Among other questions, which I'll ask once these are answered. I hope you all don't chew me up and spit me back into healer hell ;_;
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    SpookyGhost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    3,403
    Character
    Kori Fleming
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Marauder is a good starting point - easiest to tank with early on, gets tanking stance @ 30 when you unlock WAR as opposed to PLD which gets it @ 40. You want GLD to 22 for Provoke regardless of what tank you choose to play, though.

    To answer your other 3 questions: Warrior.
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player
    Erit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    99
    Character
    Rowan Sternritter
    World
    Cuchulainn
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    The answer depends on the meaning of the question; all three tanks begin with roughly equal simplicity, though Dark Knight throws you into the deep end because of its nature as an extra job. Gladiator has simpler mechanics when leveling past 20 due to a much simpler area-of-effect taunt that does not strain resources, more diverse defensive abilities (even though some of those have dubious usefulness in the best of times) and the very straightforward combat rotation for which they are known. Marauder requires more thinking and being smart about when you use what to be played optimally, between Overpower being both more position-dependent than Flash and requiring a significant amount of TP to use, and their defensive abilities being very lackluster in the beginning. Spooky Ghost has the right of it for the most part however.

    By all means, try your hand at Marauder. If you find yourself not enjoying it for how slow it can sometimes feel, try Gladiator. Of course, not everyone is made for tanking, so one would like to remind you to take all things read here with a measure of discretion.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Sapphidia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    405
    Character
    Sapphidia Wulfhaven
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    Note (and general advice for everyone really):

    When choosing a class in an MMO, don't automatically choose the one that's currently most powerful at endgame. Roll the one you find to be the most fun when playing. Balance changes. What's strong one month might be weakest next month.

    That said, Paladin, Dark Knight and Warrior all have very different feels and what one player likes, another might hate. Warriors are pretty universally regarded right now as the strongest tank. They do the most DPS whether MTing or OTing, they have a really robust kit that's got plenty of mitigation options, and they just feel really well rounded. They're the most in-demand at current time due to how most of the hardest encounters currently ingame favor DPS over raw mitigation.

    Warriors are reasonably complex to play - they fall in the middle really. Dark Knights are probably more fiddly at endgame (though quite simple to play early), paladins are generally the easiest of the tanks to get to grips with.

    The one caveat about Warriors though - everyone I know who prefers Warrior over other tanks is more... DPS minded? They like warrior for the fact it's aggressive, hard hitting and that they can rock the DPS meters. I however prefer the feeling of being a solid iron wall of indestructibility, and I prefer fast nimble attacks over slow heavy ones, so I much prefer the feel of Paladin.

    Paladins are the highest mitigation tank overall, but not by THAT much (the difference in DPS output between Warrior and Paladin is much bigger than the difference in their mitigation). They're the more traditional sword and board tank, but right now probably the least desired of the 3 tanks at endgame. They do very low AOE damage when tanking packs, and are the lowest DPS of the tanks (though when offtanking they can put out respectable DPS numbers). Note that the popularity of paladins mostly boils down to whether an encounters is super hard due to the damage a tank takes, or super hard due to the DPS requirements on the raid. In most cases right now, the latter is the case, so paladins arent as popular.

    Dark Knights are the middle ground between Paladin and Warrior. Their skillset actually matches Paladins more than Warriors, but with an extra layer of fiddly mana management. Some people love that, some hate it (i don't like it myself). They have a more aggressive feel than paladins, but not quite as much as warrior. Right now they're a good middle ground tank that does a tiny bit more dps than paladin as an MT, but much more when tanking AOE packs. This makes them very good for 4man content as their AOE damage helps churn through packs. In raids, they're mostly favored due to their high magical damage cooldowns - if an encounter does mostly magical damage (and currently Alex Savage 1 and 4 are very high magic damage) they'll be a bit tougher than a paladin.

    All 3 tanks have similar skillsets, but it's very much personal preference for which one you prefer. You NEED to get Gladiator to 22 for Provoke for all 3 tanks though, so you should do that. I'd recommend that first. Dabble a bit with all of them. You'll probably know fairly early which one you like best just due to skill animations, sounds and overall feel. They're all viable, but right now Warrior is the strongest and most popular.
    (7)

  5. #5
    Player
    Eye_Gore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,628
    Character
    Yolanda Freebush
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Gist View Post
    However, where do I start?
    First grab a hammer. Smash you left foot, hows it feeling? Ok, now ignore that pain. Now smash your right foot. Did you forget about the pain in your left foot? If yes, you are ready to start tanking. You will have no issues ignoring those who tell you to find another job, amongst other things.
    That was a joke, but no not really, but yeah.
    Honestly I really have only had a couple bad run ins. Its a lot of fun or aleast I think so. I'll be bias toward PLD because its all I play. All the hate for PLD lately is really just for end game stuff and even at that I have my doubts about it because those threads are always a mixed bag. Its easy to play simple rotation, probably why I like it. I can get all thumbs at times so its good for me. Though I was always partial to the sword and shield play types.
    (5)

  6. #6
    Player
    Galgarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    612
    Character
    Famine Cruor
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    Simplest explanations: The Warrior has the highest damage potential. His mitigation isn't as good as a Paladin's or a Dark Knight's, but he makes up for it with lots of health, and many cooldowns on short timers. Lot of stance dancing though to max his potential. Pros: Can wreck/survive anything with a good player behind the wheel, can lower magic and physical damage by 10% with one move, making him a must for raids, has none of the TP issues that can plague Dark Knights and Paladins. Cons: Has a lot of nuance and complexity compared to Dark Knights and Paladins, and lots of stuff to memorize. A good warrior is made out of rock, a bad one is made out of paper. Choose if you want a class with a high skill cap that's never boring.

    The Dark Knight has the second highest dps potential, options for good burst, very good mitigation, and the highest threat of all three tanks. Pros: Easy to use, the only tank with a gap closer, absurdly high threat potential that lets you spend more time dpsing, mitigates magic damage like a boss. Cons: Some skills work against each other, lots of skill bloat, mana management can be an issue if you're outgeared by your dps and the class has a sharp stigma of being full of worthless idiots who don't know how to tank. Choose if you want a class that has a little more complexity than a Paladin but isn't as skill capped as a Warrior. Also if you like big swords and an 'evil' image.

    The Paladin is the classic sword and board fighter. He has the lowest dps potential of all three tanks (while main tanking), but he has a much easier time mitigating physical damage than the other two. Pros: Widely considered the easiest tank to use, mitigates the most damage out of all three, possesses the most powerful defensive cooldowns in the game. Cons: Low aoe damage makes him more of a challenge to hold AOE threat with, lower single target damage has been labeled a hindrance for the current tier of progression raiding, his cooldowns center mainly around mitigating physical damage so fights with a lot of magical damage being thrown around are pain for him. Choose if: You want to play it safe with a strong, easy to use tank.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    Phoenicia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Idling in Idle-shire
    Posts
    748
    Character
    Naomi Enami
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Galgarion View Post
    The Dark Knight ... and the highest threat of all three tanks.
    Just wanted to point out that that is not true at all. Yes DRK has the highest potency enmity combo, but that doesn't give it the "highest threat" potential. You have to look at how their toolkit works. That said, let's look at DRK's "kit":

    1- Power Slash combo is DRK's weakest combo of their 3 options so people avoid reusing it. So it is NOT optimal to reuse. Each PS combo used is a DPS loss.
    2- Darkside costs MP and DRKs have to stop doing Power Slash to regain MP. Power Slash with Darkside down is weaker than Butcher's combo with Maim up. Dark Arts need two siphon strike combos each use to get the MP back. Ideally, you alternate your Siphon combos for maximum damage while never touching the PS combo after the threat lead.
    3- DRK has no offensive CDs that boost their enmity further. Dark Arts Power Slash adds a multiplier of 1 to it (6.5x) and is not even worth the MP.

    Now compared to WAR:

    1- Butcher Block is WAR's strongest combo and it is optimal for DPS and aggro to alternate BB once every other combo.
    2- Like DRK, WAR loses potential by spamming BB. WAR has incentive to use at least 1 Maim combo every third, and 1 storm eye every other combo. Ideally, you alternate SE with BB for maximum aggro damage.
    3- WAR has Unchained (33% more DPS in Defiance) and Berserk (20s of insanity). Also you can't ignore Internal Release.

    Simply put, if a WAR "wants" aggro, a DRK will not get it.

    The rest of your post is spot on though. It is a good way to put the three tanks in perspective.
    (1)
    Last edited by Phoenicia; 08-22-2015 at 11:06 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    nyttyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Dulmand
    Posts
    104
    Character
    Utsuho Reiuji
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicia View Post
    Simply put, if a WAR "wants" aggro, a DRK will not get it.
    Dark Arts Power Slash under Girt is something absolutely asanine like a 15.3x aggro multiplier on a 300 potency skill.

    If a Dark Knight wants aggro, no other class in the game can compare. Sure, you have to sacrifice 160 potency to do a Power Slash combo instead, but it's not a huge loss, and the point is moreso that Dark Knight is, hands down, the king of Single Target aggro - a equal geared warrior and paladin have zero hope of pulling threat from a dark knight in an aggro arms race.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Phoenicia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Idling in Idle-shire
    Posts
    748
    Character
    Naomi Enami
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by nyttyn View Post
    Dark Arts Power Slash under Girt is something absolutely asanine like a 15.3x aggro multiplier on a 300 potency skill.
    Nah, tested, it's 6.5 and Grit is 2.3. Since Grit and Defiance are both equal at 2.3, Power Slash at 6.5 isn't that great. Specially when WAR has 33% (Unchained) and 50% (Berserk) added on top of the 5.5 BB. With both Unchained and Zerk up (no maim) BB is at 11x, or 25.3 with Defiance. Good luck catching up to that before you run out of MP using Dark Arts on every Power Slash.
    (0)
    Last edited by Phoenicia; 08-22-2015 at 07:26 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Gist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    107
    Character
    Jerrard Coeurl
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 60
    Yay, thank you all for answering my questions~ <3

    My goal is eventually going to be getting all classes to 60 (though not i190, my WHM is already enough work as it is XD). Would there be a good "order" to level each tank in?

    I appreciate the simple playstyle of what the PLD seems to have, and I want to be The Tank and be able to take all the damage. :^) BUT, I've recently been expected to have DPS over 700 when I'm playing WHM. Am I going to be expected to DPS as a tank when that's not the role I queued for?
    (0)

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast