Remove TP bar off party list - Want this option

[MentheusDreyar]

We were playing without it for 2 years because we had no other choice hence why everyone had a Goad or Paeon macro to ask for TP, and we did the best we could with what we had, now that we finally have them there "should" be no need if people pay attention.

And if they don't understand what they did wrong? or can't figure it out? And don't speak up when low/out of TP? How do we help them? How do we see they are being a detriment to the party and see if we can help them with advice or remove them? No we need to pry more! how else are we going to help people improve? a lack of caring about other players performance is what results in all these "bads" that plague DF.. if they don't care to learn, whatever.. but I've encountered tons of people who appreciated my advice about their rotations/TP/MP management, prying doesn't mean harassment of other players. I in no way said the TP bar affects your DPS specifically, but the parties overall DPS and how you might adjust. No you don't need to see it to see your progress for the DPS check, but you DO need it to see that someone is running low on TP and might run out and cause you to fail a DPS check because no one realized they were out of TP and they didn't say anything or did say something but they never auto translated it so no one understood.

Except it is selfish, my point is not that its 100% required to play, but that everyone should have this information when you are working as a team, sure it wont be useful ALL the time to most jobs but its still something people should have for general reasons, like assisting someone who is struggling with TP management. Once you get out of the casual dungeon content you absolutely want it, but most people will probably keep it off for that too... because ignorant players will always be ignorant...

Right... so basically you're saying I'm selfish or wanting "THE PARTY" AKA 8 people, to pass through content with the least amount of issues as possible? I think you need a new definition of selfish there mate... i am NOT telling them how to play, i am telling them to keep useful information on screen so they can use their skills properly and/or monitor the party and adapt to the situation quickly rather than wiping. Having to spam a "Goad" or "Paeon" macro into the party chat because they cant see my TP is by definition telling them how to play, which plenty of people STILL HAVE TO DO even with the damn TP bar on display, removing it only makes it worse... and likely these people will remove said bar to try and avoiding actively helping the party out of sheer laziness or lack of caring.

No i don't mention communication, i mention teamwork, the two aren't the same, i'll give you two examples.... I don't have to tell my friends i need "Goad" or "Paeon" (communication) they just do it because they know i need it without me saying anything (teamwork). You don't have to communicate to work as a team... Yes if you are out of TP you probably have time to type as you auto attack, but in situations where you might actually run out, you want the regen BEFORE then. What if you're typing and cant dodge an aoe? you get hit, best case the healer wastes some MP healing you when it could have been avoided, BRD/NIN activates TP regen, not a big deal... worst case? run out of TP in a certain phase, type "Out of TP" > DIE (due to mechanics, multiple AOEs, etc) > healer wastes alot of MP raising you then has to waste MORE MP or maybe a valuable stack such as "Aetherflow" to heal the tank when it could have all been avoided if you received the TP regen SOONER... I think you are UNDERESTIMATING TP regen in the trials/raids where you should be using it and the TP bar.

I can give you a thousand more examples if you want.. even the hundreds that have happened to me and my FC while playing with randoms in trials and Alex normal and heck even dungeons!!.... the fact is far too many people don't care about supporting the party and its these people that make allowing such an option to exist a mistake, if even 20% of the people i run into were even halfway competent then i might change my stance, but adding an option to remove something that they added due to player demand because far too many people need the help or can't understand "Goad please" or just don't care, is a stupid idea... if this comes to pass you'll see PF full of "TP bars on or kick" mark my words... people don't like incompetence and encouraging it by removing party information people need and should know, will annoy people who actually care about clearing content without 1000 wipes...

There are only selfish reasons to encourage a lack of teamwork, while I've given plenty of reasons for keeping the TP bar, short of "clutter" or "i dont need it" no one has given any non selfish reason to not have it...

"I mean, as DRK i "MECHANICALLY" don't need to see anyone else's HP, TP or MP, i have no skills that affect these, why should i care if anyone else is under performing and dying and we wipe? I should just hide the entire party list because who will care?

This is how stupid people's arguments sound ^ .... It's not like i need to see if people are low on MP or TP and can't kill the stuff i pull therefore putting pressure on the healers MP and potentially causing a wipe or anything >.> *hint sarcasm* OH WAIT! I DO! i'll adjust how much i pull, or just stop and say i'll wait for their TP/MP (normally this is when someone who can't read english will run ahead and pull because they don't know WHY im waiting, yet with the TP/MP bars they should be able to see why or are just morons)

[Sento-Frost]

That's exactly what I am saying, some people are helpless, seeing how helpless they are won't change anything since they don't listen to/understand advice anyways.

I'm am not saying it's useless, I think it's a good thing. Although some classes don't care at all. AT ALL. Because they play only BLM for instance. As you said, as Tank you need MP HP PT bars to know when to pull. As classes with TP regen skills you need TP bars too. All classes need MP / HP bars even if they can't do a thing about it because it is useful to know if your team is low on HP or healers low on MP. Well some classes don't need TP bars at all, never ever, it's an information they don't have a use for, really really really with no exception.

I'll materialize your fears : imagine, there is an option to disable TP bars, some people who should have TP bars enabled disable it because they don't care and play badly. Well it's very likely that without the option they wouldn't put up any PT regen skill. As you said, and I experienced it as WAR, people still don't give us Goad and we still need to ask for it.

So let the damn people have their damn option and stop denying others players a comfort that you think is a bad idea because people will make foul use of it.
Why should good players be punished for people who do stupid things ? They always will !

[Shirobi]

Please do NOT remove the TP bars! They are invaluable! There is every reason to keep them and not a single legitimate one not to!

[Tastydoorstop]

Please keep the TP bars.. i jumped for joy when i saw it..

[Sento-Frost]

Again people meddling in something they shouldn't give a damn...

Let people who want an option ask for an option, why do you care ?!
Stop being so bossy with others, eveyone has the right to play the way he or she wants.

[MentheusDreyar]

Again people meddling in something they shouldn't give a damn...

Let people who want an option ask for an option, why do you care ?!
Stop being so bossy with others, eveyone has the right to play the way he or she wants.

No they do NOT have the right to play how they want in group content, and especially not when that person poses a potential detriment to or hinders the 3 or 7 other people they are grouped with! How do you not get that? It's not about the individual's wants and needs, but the PARTIES wants and needs!

They can demand whatever they want for solo play, I have no issues with that, but when other people's time and effort is added to the equation its damn ignorant and selfish to "play as you want".

Not only would be it a waste of time for SE to implement this, but you still haven't given any reasons for it to exist, this option would serve no purpose other than to cause potential detriments to a lot of parties with no positive benefits whatsoever...

[Sento-Frost]

I have given plenty of reasons, and I'm not the only one.
And I even gave plenty of reasons not to accept the diktat of others like you.
It's not because people will make bad use of it (they'll always find ways to) that people who won't should suffer the consequences.

Well I give up, people are being selfish and like to dictate how people should play even if they're not concerned at all (once again BLM SMN SCH DRG MNK).

[MentheusDreyar]

I have given plenty of reasons, and I'm not the only one.
And I even gave plenty of reasons not to accept the diktat of others like you.
It's not because people will make bad use of it (they'll always find ways to) that people who won't should suffer the consequences.

Well I give up, people are being selfish and like to dictate how people should play even if they're not concerned at all (once again BLM SMN SCH DRG MNK).

No.. no VALID reasons have been given to remove something that ONLY PROVIDES A BENEFIT, only selfish reasons such as "clutter", "i play as i want", "i don't need them" etc. There's a difference between a reason and a VALID reason..

So let the damn people have their damn option and stop denying others players a comfort that you think is a bad idea because people will make foul use of it.
Why should good players be punished for people who do stupid things ? They always will !

I just want to quote you on something, you say good players are being punished? Yet it's the good players that wanted the TP bars in the first place, the only people getting punished are the bads who want to avoid responsibility or teamwork. Any "good player" will keep the TP bars on REGARDLESS OF JOB.

You seem to not know the definition of selfish: "lacking consideration for other people"

I'm doing the exact opposite, I'm thinking of the other 3-7 players in the party over the selfish individual in the group, which is the CORRECT thing to do in a group situation.

ONCE AGAIN I'm telling you the TP bar has a use for EVERY JOB. As an example i was in A1 yesterday farming Bolts as a SMN, 6 french players and 2 english, me and a NIN. Most of the way through the fight the MNK runs out of TP with the main oppressor way behind 0.5 which the MNK had been on. I don't know why, whether the NIN wasn't paying attention or was focused on the rotation and hadn't checked the party list in awhile, but regardless they hadn't noticed the MNK's TP issue. At this point I "A SMN" asked him to use Goad on the MNK, which no one else had mentioned yet (language barrier or lacking of caring).... And he did! he apologized, MNK swapped over to oppressor, evened out the damage and we cleared with no issues..

OMG!? WHAT WAS THAT!? A use for the TP bar for one of the classes you deemed "doesn't need it EVER" MIND = BLOWN. I prevented a potential wipe by using the information that was available, despite it being "useless" for my Job.

I will say it again and i'll make it clear for you, "TP information is important and useful to people REGARDLESS of job, the PLAYER using those jobs can still make use of the information even if the job can't"
Anyone who doesn't make use of available tools on purpose is a bad player and a potential detriment to the party.

[Sento-Frost]

That's a lot of caps ! ^^

Your example is nice if you're a control-freak, but I consider it's not my role to tell other people to do something on other people, particularly on duty finder where all people are guests. I don't need that to play, if people come in end-game content without knowledge of their job it's not me who should suffer the consequences on my interface all the time.

I don't need TP bars as BLM SMN SCH DRG WHM MNK. I need them as BRD MCH NIN AST. I can have a small use of them as DRK WAR PLD.
Please allow us to choose if we display or not.

[MentheusDreyar]

Haha, was trying to make important parts stand out, i didn't intend any hostility

My example is hardly in the realm of a control freak though, it's just plain common sense. If i can help someone to prevent a bad situation because they aren't paying attention i will, obviously not in a hostile way, unless there's no time to be polite and it needs to be done straight away. If i have the information to prevent a wipe or other problems that extend the time it takes to complete a duty or makes it harder why wouldn't i? Sure it might not be our role, and ideally we shouldn't need to do it, but if that little bit of extra effort saves us another 10+ mins there's no reason not to. People value their time, which is why people quit rather than stay around to wipe over and over, if that can be prevented, i ask why you wouldn't do that or keep information that might prevent it?

Again we're back to the whole "interface" thing.. The party list literally takes up NO more space than it did without the TP bars, it used unused space, it only seems cluttered because you think it looks cluttered. If you care so little about your party when playing jobs that have less use for TP bars, then don't bother looking at your party list, i mean it's the same premise, why bother checking when you can't do anything? Don't subject the rest of us to the selfishness and ignorance of other players more than we have to put up with now just because you're only thinking of yourself and a few tiny lines bother you...

You come off incredibly selfish saying you value your interface more than the status of your party. Which makes you a massive hypocrite because all this time you've been saying me and other's with my opinion that want to promote actual teamwork and giving a damn about other player's are the selfish ones. Well i think everyone would agree that the person who only thinks of themselves in a party because 3-7 god damn tiny little bars are on his screen is in the wrong here. (Or at least anyone will even a slither of common sense). The amount of potential problems that will stem from allowing people to hide something added to help, mostly likely the people that are going to hide it, is not worth it compared to the few good players who might want to hide it for whatever reasons they want too.. so just suck it up!

No offense here, but you come off as one of those selfish, ignorant, bare minimum and generally unhelpful players that seem to plague our data center (among others). And generally the reason i quit using the DF pretty much all together, in addition to the vast amount of "bads", and run everything i can pre-made now. "It's not my job i don't care" is a TERRIBLE attitude to have in a group environment and you are only promoting that attitude, which is bad enough on it's own, but when we have jobs that are designed to help other people play their jobs and boost their effectiveness and by far the vast majority of those people don't use that part of their job at all, just shows how much we cant trust the average player.

I'm sorry if some puny little lines bother you so much, but the repeated wipes and wasted time of a lot of other players because people cannot be trusted even with TP bars active, FAR, FAR, FAR outweighs you're fussiness...