Still none of the needed changes?

[Arienal]

These new systems encourage you to be strategic in how you consume and renew these resources. THATs where the challenge lies. If you want to completely get rid of these systems then you are just asking for simple/easy mode.

Strategic planning is all well and good, but when the majority of content coming out in this game is little more than a series of damage checks where you outright fail if you dont hit X damage in a certain amount of time..doesnt really add up.

And for the love of all thats holy..ive said it three times now...but apparently its being ignored..im NOT looking for 'easy mode', how many times do i have to say it? or are you guys just using old answers from other conversations.

[T0rin]

And for the love of all thats holy..ive said it three times now...but apparently its being ignored..im NOT looking for 'easy mode', how many times do i have to say it? or are you guys just using old answers from other conversations.

Here's your main issue: You're calling for changes on how a class plays because you find that you cannot deal with the interruptions to your DPS that come in current raiding content. Many end game raiders know multiple DRGs who are doing top tier DPS, even with all the same interruptions that you are dealing with. So, in essence, you are asking for changes to accommodate your style of playing the class that is resulting in sub-optimal performance, or performance that you feel is in need of improvement, though not as a result of your personal contribution. This is essentially asking for the class to be easier to play, hence the reactions.

The reality is, the class is 100% just fine. A day ago, it was probably #1 DPS, and given the contribution of Littany and Disembowel, even if they are not #1 from a pure DPS perspective, they probably still are from a raid contribution perspective. Just because you have issues, does not mean the class has issues.

[Sigmakan]

Strategic planning is all well and good, but when the majority of content coming out in this game is little more than a series of damage checks where you outright fail if you dont hit X damage in a certain amount of time..doesnt really add up.

And for the love of all thats holy..ive said it three times now...but apparently its being ignored..im NOT looking for 'easy mode', how many times do i have to say it? or are you guys just using old answers from other conversations.

The challenge lies with maximizing DPS while maintaining this resource. Asking to remove the resource is asking for easy mode. Sorry

[Arienal]

The reality is, the class is 100% just fine. A day ago, it was probably #1 DPS

I feel like im talking with a broken record player. The big counter point im seeing from people here revolves around where it sits on the damage charts. Granted, a few people have brought up their own views on botd and how they're fine with it, great, ok. yet even after i was asked for proposed solutions, and provided them earlier, still not discussed. The other issues i mentioned? Same story.

Some people are fine with the changes? More power to em. but im growing tired of being met with 'you want easy mode' on this thread which IS NOT THE CASE. Clearly im wasting my time talking to people who just parrot the same stuff. 'easy mode' 'top damage' are the majority of what im seeing today so I take my leave.

See you all in another few patches if things still arent resolved.

[Aiselia]

Considering that the BRD/MCH and DRG is part of the raid, it does indeed boost raid DPS. Your counter arguments in this thread are on some next level ish.

It comes down to phrasing.

I don't consider something to be "raid utility" if it only can possibly affect a small portion of the raid. Following the logic that if only one person gets affected by it, that's raid utility, then NIN poisons are raid utility and Cleric Stance is clearly the most OP raid utility because of how much of a personal increase it is to a healer's DPS.

Semantics aside, I'm not wrong, which is the important part. Dragoons don't have the best raid utility.

[ColdestHeaven]

Strategic planning is all well and good, but when the majority of content coming out in this game is little more than a series of damage checks where you outright fail if you dont hit X damage in a certain amount of time..doesnt really add up.

I asked for an example of RNG that would outright punish you for not being conservative about Geirskogul, yet you answered with the 3.0 version of Praetorium. And now you talk about damage checks in endgame? The very same endgame where I failed to find a mechanic RNG enough to disrupt gameplay outside of tornados*? I'm not sure I understand your logic, again.

The only thing I can suggest you is to try other classes, not because "you are not good with DRG", but because I found that it helped giving insight on the game as a whole, and it could help you cope with DRG, just like it did for me. Because I hated it too at the beginning, but I have had enough time to digest the changes.
But if even after that you do not like how the class currently works, I really suggest you do change it - because it already works fine for most of us.

I think I'm done here, I said everything that needed to be said.



*Because seriously, screw tornados.

[whiskeybravo]

Torin said it more eloquently than I could. But yea, you ask for it to be simpler so of course that's why we say you want easy mode lol

Funny, because the majority of drg's i meet on my own server share these frustrations, while the supporters are the minority.

I already made several proposed changes, yet every time i do put those suggestions up they are always answered with shut up! damage or X job has it worse

To restate a few suggestions i made, drop the timer on botd and add a stacking buff similar to wrath, and have GK based on THAT. this way it still keeps GK a bit limited but without downright killing the buff and crippling the player when things DO go south.

Change the copy/paste build of FnC/WT and make them their own skills. instead of a random proc, change them to follow FT/CT respectively as combo bonuses. with one building the stacks for GK and the other having its own effect, such as reduced tp on next ability to account for ever increasing SS, or something similar to give it its own purpose. This way they each have their own purpose, and dont just get macro'd onto the same button on the hotbar.

Well maybe Hyperion just has a bunch of whiny DRGs, because on Leviathan I've never heard a single DRG complain.

So drop the BotD timer, and make it like War stacks.. You realize you're complaining about WT/FC being copy/paste but then suggest copy/paste from another job as a solution? There's nothing wrong with BotD timer and the "resource management" that goes along with it.

I would be all for WT and FC having slightly varying effects, but again, you're dumbing it down by removing complexity that makes DRG unique compared to the other melee. The problem (not with your suggestions in particular) is that if you have and RNG based proc system you don't want one half giving a beneficial effect while the other doesn't. (one of my previous suggestions was adding a dot to one, but you wouldn't want a situation where you only get the dot proc, or never get the dot proc). So at least both of these being the same means that neither one can be detrimental if continuously proc'd.

[Aiselia]

So drop the BotD timer, and make it like War stacks.. You realize you're complaining about WT/FC being copy/paste but then suggest copy/paste from another job as a solution? There's nothing wrong with BotD timer and the "resource management" that goes along with it.

To be fair, you're either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the point about copy-paste.

The problem with it being copy-pasted as the OP is stating it is that it does the same damage with the same TP cost with the same effect except from a different angle. Like, if FaC did less up-front damage but applied a debuff while WT did more damage up front with no debuff, that wouldn't be copy-pasted.

Using mechanics styles from other classes is irrelevant to what the OP is complaining about as copy-pasted, especially if "BOTD-Wrath" didn't increase parry chance/crit chance, it wouldn't be a copy paste of WAR's stances.

[La_Bluegirl]

So I'm assuming you mean..maybe make Vorpal, Full, Disembowel, Chaos thrust, and the 4ths give a "stack" of botd or something? And then 5 stacks = GK? So you get a free 30% increase to jump/spineshatter for using 1 skill, having it fall off for a global cooldown (heavy thrust or impulse dive) then have it right back up? Sounds silly to me. If you DIDN'T mean that then your GK would be even more delayed than vanilla so I really dunno what you want. This is why I generally ignore most people's ideas of why something "needs to be changed", its never really balanced.

[whiskeybravo]

To be fair, you're either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the point about copy-paste.

Not misunderstanding just drawing the logical conclusion.. BotD is unique. Copying War wrath stacks would not be. Monks also have stacks, as do SMN with aetherflow and MCH with ammo. There's not anything else like BotD and OP is asking to change what is basically one of our unique identifiers. Does it Jump? Does it feed off the blood of dragons? Then it must be a Dragoon! Oh, it doesn't do that anymore? Move along, nothing to see here.

So yea I can see why a lot of us take these kind of complaints somewhat personally, I love DRG and how it plays, as do many here.