Still none of the needed changes?

[Arienal]

I have to disagree. I am all for a challenge, by all means, make me work for it, but thats not what they've done. All they did here was copy/paste two attacks into one, and make us rely entirely on a buff that can be lost at any time due to random fight mechanics.

The only 'complexity' they've added is fighting against yet 'another' maintained timer. It can work ok on heavily scripted fights, like titan or bahamut, where you know what is going to hapen, when, and in what order. You can plan around that just fine. The issue is the random stuff that cannot be predicted and just kills your buff, depending on at what point, making you wait up to 45 seconds to even use ANY of the new attacks, essentially crippling the player when there was nothing they could do about the situation.

[ColdestHeaven]

buff that can be lost at any time due to random fight mechanics.

It can work ok on heavily scripted fights, like titan or bahamut, where you know what is going to hapen, when, and in what order. You can plan around that just fine. The issue is the random stuff that cannot be predicted and just kills your buff, depending on at what point, making you wait up to 45 seconds to even use ANY of the new attacks

Can I get an example of a so-called random fight, just to understand what we are talking about? The only thing that ever comes to mind is A4 quarantine, with its Savage counterpart, which can easily be prevented by notshootingGeirlikeamaniac? It's still heavily scripted, everything in this game is basically timed in a certain way. Hell, as long as you have 10-12 seconds you can still recharge it assuming you have the right amount of skillspeed, or you can have more as long as you dontpressthatbutton.

I mean, you say "wait up to 45 seconds" - that means you popped BotD in the worst moment possible because you were not able to land a single attack. That is the same as popping:
1) Perfect Balance (10s and 3m cooldown, otherwise no quick GL3)
2) Enochian (I described the issue in another post above, please refer to that)
3) Dreadwyrm trance (15s, albeit not the best example)
4) Mudra (5 seconds per input at best or you are screwed)
Exactly when you get stunned/locked/whatever.

It can happen, but it is a mistake on your/my part in every fight I know. It is exactly the same as using B4B right when the boss be like "aight, I'm outta here". You can't really complain about something like this, unless you can point me a fight where there is true RNG.

[Aiselia]

Can I get an example of a so-called random fight

I dunno about OP, but it seems to me like every time I try to use BOTD in the second boss fight of Neverreap, the boss always targets me for totems and centres the circle as close to that totem as possible. /fistshake

[ColdestHeaven]

Neverreap

Seriously though, I did this on my MNK the other day and got targeted each time. Surprisingly enough, since I don't really play on MNK often, I never dropped Greased. The only major difference between DRG and MNK in terms of refreshing the timer is that if you interact with something you break the combo. However you always have more than enough time to finish a combo before dragging the totem, and buy yourself 15 more seconds - which equals 5 free seconds of not doing anything - or you can hold on your Geir until after you see who got targeted. Of course, the more the fight drags on, the more you have to decide if you wanna risk getting a totem buff or holding more and more Geir - but then again whatever, it's still a dungeon. The timing of that mechanic is scripted too, though - that's not real RNG because he does that at regular intervals.

Gonna edit to answer to Arienal brb

Sure, here's one. Aetherochemical research facility, recall the garlean legatus? He has a random player-targeted stun that lasts 6 seconds, unavoidable, no marker to show who gets targeted, just his model turns, points and BAM stun.

On one specific run I had just brought up BoTD and was halfway through my CT activation when the stun hit, cancelling the attack and preventing a fang/WT proc. by the time the stun wore off there wasnt even enough time to get another 4-hit combo off. Poof, blood gone.

And thats just one specific example, this happens quite a fair bit and frankly, i know nothing of mnk, blm or smn post-50 so i cant draw comparisons to them, nor do i intend to. I made this about 'drg' and the changes 'it' needs.

I admit I haven't done that many times so I haven't figured if there is a rotation behind this, or HP% based stuff, but I suppose this is one valid (albeit extreme, mind you) example in terms of "OH GOD WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME". However.

This may happen with each mechanic every class needs to deal with (what I mentioned before). What you want is that DRG be always at their best (buff permanently up) despite of the encounter, without considering that others have to deal with this crap too in a form or another. You are criticizing the BoTD system in relationship to mechanics (I shall use the plural for the sake of believing that there's more like this) that actually hurt everything. At least from my point of view, this is not logical at all.

[Arienal]

What you want is that DRG be always at their best (buff permanently up)

You mean like how, aside from BLM, every other job in this game has at least 1 buff they can have up perm?
pld: oaths
war: stances
drk: grit or w/e that stance is called
mkn: fists
nin: poisons
brd: minuet
mch: gauss
smn/sch: aetherflow
whm: clerics

Seriously, im not saying other jobs dont have their own problems, there's alot more to fix than just this, but drg specifically is why i made this thread, there's nothing saying an annoyed mch or something cant also put up a thread of their own.

[ColdestHeaven]

[QUOTE]

Did you even read what I put? this particular example relates to the beginning of the fight, no GK was even used. Also, not use GK? sure, lets not use the very ability that all this buildup exists to use. This is exactly my point, the alleged 600potency a minute that people keep bringing up from GK? Doesnt even exist outside of striking dummy fights cause guess what? cant even use it that often due to botd's timer. why? because bad design. Oh! but damage! damage is high cause 3 GKs a minute! 600 oGCD! Oh but wait, gotta hold off on GK cause timer.

See where this goes? its a illogical circle.

This so-called build-up allows you to use:
1) Longer high-potency combos
2) Three Geirskogul per minute
3) Stronger Jumps


You pop BotD on Chaos, 15s, use 4th hit, BAM 26-28s. There. You already have half of the cooldown covered for extreme measures. You can AT LEAST pull off two Geirskogul, one because I don't believe you won't ever be able to refresh the buff once in a minute, second is to burn the buff entirely before repopping the BotD. You can't fit a third Geirskogul because of mechanics? Big deal, there has to be a draw back to a high potency off-GCD, don't use it and keep the Jump buff and fourth combo. Being tactical about using certain skills or gimmicks should never be bad design.

You mean like how, aside from BLM, every other job in this game has at least 1 buff they can have up perm?
pld: oaths
war: stances
drk: grit or w/e that stance is called
mkn: fists
nin: poisons
brd: minuet
mch: gauss
smn/sch: aetherflow
whm: clerics

Seriously, im not saying other jobs dont have their own problems, there's alot more to fix than just this, but drg specifically is why i made this thread, there's nothing saying an annoyed mch or something cant also put up a thread of their own.

Don't compare STANCES to buffs. Don't, just don't. Please. That is a whole another can of worms.

You clearly said " I made this about 'drg' and the changes 'it' needs. ". Except it doesn't, because in your logic DPS shouldn't have any challenge at all in being played - without buffs having to be kept and so on.

[Arienal]

[QUOTE=ColdestHeaven;3273470]

because in your logic DPS shouldn't have any challenge at all in being played - without buffs having to be kept and so on.

Thats not even remotely close to what i said, as i stated in an earlier post, im perfectly FINE with being made to work for it, know what else has to be maintained? Disembowel, Heavy Thrust, Chaos thrust, phleb. did you see me make even a single comment about those? no. because i dont have issues with them, they can be quickly and easily refreshed, and they dont require a damn CD, and they arent required to be up for everything else getting unlocked.

They havent given difficulty, they've given an illusion of complexity for its own sake.

[Misutoraru]

Neverreap for me either
not the second boss
but the last
the "trollnados" always target me, and always stick with me no matter where i run
yet, i have to agree with OP about Fang & Claws, Wheeling
they are identical just different positioning, it is not challenging but lazy and stupid design

[Arienal]

Can I get an example of a so-called random fight, just to understand what we are talking about?

Sure, here's one. Aetherochemical research facility, recall the garlean legatus? He has a random player-targeted stun that lasts 6 seconds, unavoidable, no marker to show who gets targeted, just his model turns, points and BAM stun.

On one specific run I had just brought up BoTD and was halfway through my CT activation when the stun hit, cancelling the attack and preventing a fang/WT proc. by the time the stun wore off there wasnt even enough time to get another 4-hit combo off. Poof, blood gone.

And thats just one specific example, this happens quite a fair bit and frankly, i know nothing of mnk, blm or smn post-50 so i cant draw comparisons to them, nor do i intend to. I made this about 'drg' and the changes 'it' needs.

[Lucael_Shikaree]

Sure, here's one. Aetherochemical research facility, recall the garlean legatus? He has a random player-targeted stun that lasts 6 seconds, unavoidable, no marker to show who gets targeted, just his model turns, points and BAM stun.

So you're using as example a boss from a dungeon that probably you're going to clear so few times to justify your mechanic critics? Just put more common situations, like raiding or endgame dungeons, because really there's not such a thing like "beyond player control".