Still none of the needed changes?

[ColdestHeaven]

What about it?

You are even stricter with that. You do not lose a large amount of damage if you hold your Geirskogul instead of shooting like a maniac. Besides, you get a 30% boost to two of your most frequent off-GCD skills. Fire IV? Enochian? Trying to optimize those will give you perspective on how easy it actually is to manage BotD. Every time you have to dodge an AOE you are likely to lose at least one cast of Fire IV - which is a hardcast 260 MAGIC potency (which is higher than 290 physical potency, a LOT higher) that BLM need to use to keep their damage on par with the others.

Seriously, are you guys complaining about the 10s CD on Geirskogul? Tornado kick has 40s CD, yet it's not like MNKs be like "imma blow this every time it's up" either.

Finally, are we still complaining about RNG combos? We already have the easiest combo ever (same two series of four buttons in a row and one of the two depending on the proc), even MNKs now alternate less abilities, not even having this gimmick (whether it's good design or not is debatable) would make it even dumber.

[Sigmakan]

I will agree with your comment about MCH being blunt damage. I still dont understand why 3 dps jobs rely on piercing while only 1 relies on blunt. While this imbalance exists, there will always be a large preference for DRG over MNK

[Arienal]

WHILE ALSO complaining about GK's oGCD 600 potency a minute. All while having arguably the best offensive raid utility of the dps, and the highest single target dps to top it all off.

This isnt about damage, so long as a job's output keeps it viable for content thats enough. This is about piss poor design, they just copy-pasted fang over to wheeling and changed 'flank' to 'rear' but nobody's addressed that. So far im seeing nothing but 'shut up you have high potential damage" nobody has yet to say anything to counter the shit design.

To me that says SE could make a job thats just got 1 attack, all the way to lvl 60, with a potency of 600+ and everything else is buffs. that'd blow the hell out of any damage parser for sure, and by the logic i see alot of people using here, thats apparently good design...sounds more than a bit skewed.

[Leonus]

This isnt about damage, so long as a job's output keeps it viable for content thats enough. This is about piss poor design, they just copy-pasted fang over to wheeling and changed 'flank' to 'rear' but nobody's addressed that. So far im seeing nothing but 'shut up you have high potential damage" nobody has yet to say anything to counter the shit design.

To me that says SE could make a job thats just got 1 attack, all the way to lvl 60, with a potency of 600+ and everything else is buffs. that'd blow the hell out of any damage parser for sure, and by the logic i see alot of people using here, thats apparently good design...sounds more than a bit skewed.

You made one hell of a leap.

[Aiselia]

Except you skipped the main point Disembowl is a raid utility.

No I didn't. I specifically also pointed out that Disembowel is "the same effect" as Dancing Edge for a different damage type, but that DE would always affect the tank(s) and ninja while Disembowel would only affect the DRG and BRD/MCH.

I ignored Disembowel for mostly the fact that each melee DPS gets a debuff that increases their damage type, which means that without considering specific group compositions (a group without a Bard/MCH will not have as many people benefit from Disembowel whereas a group with 3 BRD/MCH will see a bigger increase from Disembowel), those two abilities are, in themselves, equal.

You made one hell of a leap.

What did you expect from a Dragoon, if not big leaps? :P

[Arienal]

You made one hell of a leap.

Yes, its an exaggeration, a big one. I made it to drive home the point that this seems to be the only counter point anyone makes.

It doesnt matter if the topic comes up ingame, or on the forum. Whether it's me or someone else. Every time it gets brought up its always greeted by "Shut up you have high damage" and its never any discussion about the design itself, just 'damage damage damage'

[Neyka]

None of the changes suggested by the OP are "needed". Honestly, I think dragoons are in a perfectly fine place right now. They are more complex than they were at 50, and some of that complexity may be superfluous, but it does leave room to separate the average dragoons from the good dragoons.

Just like wander's minuet or enochian, adapt or find a new class.

[Arienal]

I have to disagree. I am all for a challenge, by all means, make me work for it, but thats not what they've done. All they did here was copy/paste two attacks into one, and make us rely entirely on a buff that can be lost at any time due to random fight mechanics.

The only 'complexity' they've added is fighting against yet 'another' maintained timer. It can work ok on heavily scripted fights, like titan or bahamut, where you know what is going to hapen, when, and in what order. You can plan around that just fine. The issue is the random stuff that cannot be predicted and just kills your buff, depending on at what point, making you wait up to 45 seconds to even use ANY of the new attacks, essentially crippling the player when there was nothing they could do about the situation.

[Leonus]

What did you expect from a Dragoon, if not big leaps? :P

Damnit lol, you got me.

[ColdestHeaven]

buff that can be lost at any time due to random fight mechanics.

It can work ok on heavily scripted fights, like titan or bahamut, where you know what is going to hapen, when, and in what order. You can plan around that just fine. The issue is the random stuff that cannot be predicted and just kills your buff, depending on at what point, making you wait up to 45 seconds to even use ANY of the new attacks

Can I get an example of a so-called random fight, just to understand what we are talking about? The only thing that ever comes to mind is A4 quarantine, with its Savage counterpart, which can easily be prevented by notshootingGeirlikeamaniac? It's still heavily scripted, everything in this game is basically timed in a certain way. Hell, as long as you have 10-12 seconds you can still recharge it assuming you have the right amount of skillspeed, or you can have more as long as you dontpressthatbutton.

I mean, you say "wait up to 45 seconds" - that means you popped BotD in the worst moment possible because you were not able to land a single attack. That is the same as popping:
1) Perfect Balance (10s and 3m cooldown, otherwise no quick GL3)
2) Enochian (I described the issue in another post above, please refer to that)
3) Dreadwyrm trance (15s, albeit not the best example)
4) Mudra (5 seconds per input at best or you are screwed)
Exactly when you get stunned/locked/whatever.

It can happen, but it is a mistake on your/my part in every fight I know. It is exactly the same as using B4B right when the boss be like "aight, I'm outta here". You can't really complain about something like this, unless you can point me a fight where there is true RNG.