Still none of the needed changes?

[Ephier]

It affects the Dragoon's DPS and at most one Bard or MCH, unless you're stacking BRD/MCH for some reason.

That's not raid DPS.

Considering that the BRD/MCH and DRG is part of the raid, it does indeed boost raid DPS. Your counter arguments in this thread are on some next level ish.

[ColdestHeaven]

What about it?

You are even stricter with that. You do not lose a large amount of damage if you hold your Geirskogul instead of shooting like a maniac. Besides, you get a 30% boost to two of your most frequent off-GCD skills. Fire IV? Enochian? Trying to optimize those will give you perspective on how easy it actually is to manage BotD. Every time you have to dodge an AOE you are likely to lose at least one cast of Fire IV - which is a hardcast 260 MAGIC potency (which is higher than 290 physical potency, a LOT higher) that BLM need to use to keep their damage on par with the others.

Seriously, are you guys complaining about the 10s CD on Geirskogul? Tornado kick has 40s CD, yet it's not like MNKs be like "imma blow this every time it's up" either.

Finally, are we still complaining about RNG combos? We already have the easiest combo ever (same two series of four buttons in a row and one of the two depending on the proc), even MNKs now alternate less abilities, not even having this gimmick (whether it's good design or not is debatable) would make it even dumber.

[La_Bluegirl]

While I did forget DE incase you didn't have a warrior (almost never?) I edited my original post to say "arguably" so we can stop focusing on ninja vs dragoon, but to show they are pretty much the total package.

[Sigmakan]

I will agree with your comment about MCH being blunt damage. I still dont understand why 3 dps jobs rely on piercing while only 1 relies on blunt. While this imbalance exists, there will always be a large preference for DRG over MNK

[Neyka]

None of the changes suggested by the OP are "needed". Honestly, I think dragoons are in a perfectly fine place right now. They are more complex than they were at 50, and some of that complexity may be superfluous, but it does leave room to separate the average dragoons from the good dragoons.

Just like wander's minuet or enochian, adapt or find a new class.

[Arienal]

I have to disagree. I am all for a challenge, by all means, make me work for it, but thats not what they've done. All they did here was copy/paste two attacks into one, and make us rely entirely on a buff that can be lost at any time due to random fight mechanics.

The only 'complexity' they've added is fighting against yet 'another' maintained timer. It can work ok on heavily scripted fights, like titan or bahamut, where you know what is going to hapen, when, and in what order. You can plan around that just fine. The issue is the random stuff that cannot be predicted and just kills your buff, depending on at what point, making you wait up to 45 seconds to even use ANY of the new attacks, essentially crippling the player when there was nothing they could do about the situation.

[ColdestHeaven]

buff that can be lost at any time due to random fight mechanics.

It can work ok on heavily scripted fights, like titan or bahamut, where you know what is going to hapen, when, and in what order. You can plan around that just fine. The issue is the random stuff that cannot be predicted and just kills your buff, depending on at what point, making you wait up to 45 seconds to even use ANY of the new attacks

Can I get an example of a so-called random fight, just to understand what we are talking about? The only thing that ever comes to mind is A4 quarantine, with its Savage counterpart, which can easily be prevented by notshootingGeirlikeamaniac? It's still heavily scripted, everything in this game is basically timed in a certain way. Hell, as long as you have 10-12 seconds you can still recharge it assuming you have the right amount of skillspeed, or you can have more as long as you dontpressthatbutton.

I mean, you say "wait up to 45 seconds" - that means you popped BotD in the worst moment possible because you were not able to land a single attack. That is the same as popping:
1) Perfect Balance (10s and 3m cooldown, otherwise no quick GL3)
2) Enochian (I described the issue in another post above, please refer to that)
3) Dreadwyrm trance (15s, albeit not the best example)
4) Mudra (5 seconds per input at best or you are screwed)
Exactly when you get stunned/locked/whatever.

It can happen, but it is a mistake on your/my part in every fight I know. It is exactly the same as using B4B right when the boss be like "aight, I'm outta here". You can't really complain about something like this, unless you can point me a fight where there is true RNG.

[Aiselia]

Can I get an example of a so-called random fight

I dunno about OP, but it seems to me like every time I try to use BOTD in the second boss fight of Neverreap, the boss always targets me for totems and centres the circle as close to that totem as possible. /fistshake

[ColdestHeaven]

Neverreap

Seriously though, I did this on my MNK the other day and got targeted each time. Surprisingly enough, since I don't really play on MNK often, I never dropped Greased. The only major difference between DRG and MNK in terms of refreshing the timer is that if you interact with something you break the combo. However you always have more than enough time to finish a combo before dragging the totem, and buy yourself 15 more seconds - which equals 5 free seconds of not doing anything - or you can hold on your Geir until after you see who got targeted. Of course, the more the fight drags on, the more you have to decide if you wanna risk getting a totem buff or holding more and more Geir - but then again whatever, it's still a dungeon. The timing of that mechanic is scripted too, though - that's not real RNG because he does that at regular intervals.

Gonna edit to answer to Arienal brb

Sure, here's one. Aetherochemical research facility, recall the garlean legatus? He has a random player-targeted stun that lasts 6 seconds, unavoidable, no marker to show who gets targeted, just his model turns, points and BAM stun.

On one specific run I had just brought up BoTD and was halfway through my CT activation when the stun hit, cancelling the attack and preventing a fang/WT proc. by the time the stun wore off there wasnt even enough time to get another 4-hit combo off. Poof, blood gone.

And thats just one specific example, this happens quite a fair bit and frankly, i know nothing of mnk, blm or smn post-50 so i cant draw comparisons to them, nor do i intend to. I made this about 'drg' and the changes 'it' needs.

I admit I haven't done that many times so I haven't figured if there is a rotation behind this, or HP% based stuff, but I suppose this is one valid (albeit extreme, mind you) example in terms of "OH GOD WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME". However.

This may happen with each mechanic every class needs to deal with (what I mentioned before). What you want is that DRG be always at their best (buff permanently up) despite of the encounter, without considering that others have to deal with this crap too in a form or another. You are criticizing the BoTD system in relationship to mechanics (I shall use the plural for the sake of believing that there's more like this) that actually hurt everything. At least from my point of view, this is not logical at all.

[Misutoraru]

Neverreap for me either
not the second boss
but the last
the "trollnados" always target me, and always stick with me no matter where i run
yet, i have to agree with OP about Fang & Claws, Wheeling
they are identical just different positioning, it is not challenging but lazy and stupid design