Thread: DRK Change in Patch 3.07

I don't know if this is true for Living dead or not but some times I see that I'm not even topped off befor the time runs out. So it could be one of 2 things I think is going on. The most likely reason is I was topped off but took a hit befor I realize it. Other is maybe it doesn't take into account of the hp from either bonus vitality or the vitality from gear.

But one of the biggest problems I see with DRK is that Grit is on gcd and it takes a lot of mp to put up so if DRK is ot it can't swap to tank stance fast because of 2 things mp cost and gcd not bk up. I could be fine with the mp cost really if Grit was off gcd I'd be fine too if puting Grit up broke a combo.

So right now you either have it on all the time to grab hate at a moments notice or become perfect and predict when the moogle crap will hit the fan.

Originally Posted by Rhaja

Honestly though now that healers are stronger it hasn't been nearly as much of an issue. That being said, with Holmgang you do get the benefit of WAR's toolkit; Thrill, Second Wind, Inner Beast, Berserk, and now Equalibrium. It's got it's drawbacks, but you can help out. I can't remember if Soul Eater counts towards the heals for Living Dead.

Not sure if Souleater counts or not, and let's assume it does, it is too small (2.7k was my biggest crit with it) to rely on anyways. And, being a third hit in a combo, for the duration of LD, you can get 2 at most. This coupled with the fact you need to be healed for the max of your HP makes Souleater just irrelevant.

Personally I think LD is good for what it does (prevents death) and is probably better than Holmgang in that regard. It's just that the strain it puts on the healers is unnecessary.

The problem with throwing that many CDs to mitigate the downside of another CD is that's a VERY ideal situation. But then again, you use Holmgang in 1 of two situations: 1 - planned to save CDs. 2- Emergency because otherwise you'd die.

Now let's look at those two situations:

1- If it is planned so you save CDs. (Example: use on tank buster and get healed back up to save CDs for other busters).

The issue with throwing Berserk + Equilibrium + ToB + IB + SW is that you just defeated the whole purpose of saving CDs. I mean if you pop ToB + IB you would've survived the buster anyway!

2- Emergency death prevention:

Usually, this happens if 1) you eff'd up your CD rotation or don't have wrath for IB or 2) you popped CDs but are still dropping low because no heals and you wanted to buy 6 more seconds. In the first scenario, it's understandable to pop Equilibrium and co. But in the latter scenario you have already popped CDs and are dying, as a result you used Hg. By the time Hg's duration is down, you probably won't have those heals to save you.

These two have exceptions of course (like not swapping on Phoenix and eating a second Revelation). But if you're eating a second revelation, you probably don't have your CDs back up yet since you used them 1 minute prior mitigating the original revelation.

Hence, the flaws of Holmgang. And that's not even touching how the root can sometimes make you eat an AoE and die anyways lol.

Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Yeah, it is amazing how Living Dead doesn't have any of Holmgang's flaws (requiring a target, getting rooted, lasts only 6s, having a slight animation delay, etc.) yet it still manages to be worse!

Living Dead does have an animation delay, same as Hallowed and same as Holmgang.
Holmgang has a shorter duration, but also has a much shorter CD.
The root is a valid negative of Holmgang as is the target requirement in some situations, but Living Dead killing you if you are not healed for your max HP is also a very valid negative.

To me there are a couple things that tips Living Dead into being by far the worst of the Tank anti-death abilities.

First is that it has two separate stages to it and has virtually no visual messaging for the activation of the Walking Dead state or when the kill-you debuff falls off. Right now it is only shown via small buff/debuff icons that can easily get lost in the UI jumble. The visibility of these state changes need to be better messaged by the usage of visual fx, for example when Walking Dead gets activated a large spectral reaper fx appears above the DRK player and disappears when the death timer debuff goes away.

Removing the debuff that kills you also removes the buff and no healer in their right mind would risk waiting until the last second to remove it to try to maximize the uptime, therefore it's 10 seconds of functional uptime (once Walking Dead is activated) is never fully realized. With this in mind, it makes the much longer CD of Living Dead a bit hard to justify. Two possible solutions I see for this. One, keep it as is with the buff going away when the debuff does, but drop the CD to be inline with Holmgang. Two make it so the buff stays for its duration even after the debuff goes away and the CD stays the same (or it could be shortened just a bit imo).

Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

snip

This sums up how I feel.

People look at it only in a way where if it saves your life, it did it's job! But that isn't how it works, and wasn't even how it worked for these types of abilities in 2.0. There are many, many uses outside of pressing it when things get rough to save your life.

Such as cheesing content! (Looking at you Hollowed)

Now the problem comes in when you realize that you only have 10 seconds to heal 100% of the Drk's HP to keep them from being insta-killed. BUT if you heal 100% of their HP, they lose their immortality. So which do you do? Ontop of that, the amount of healer attention it requires is far, far worse than Holmgang. Holmgang doesn't instant kill you. In T13 after soaking a set of Akh Morns with Holmgang, you can be left with 1 HP for a bit and be completely fine until the healers throw a heal at you, I've done it so many times. You do that with Living Dead and you're dead.

The healers either need to spot heal you throughout it's duration while risking removing Walking Dead from you too early and getting yourself killed anyway, or they need to wait until after all of the threatening damage stops coming in, and rush to top you off as fast as they can, or blow benediction (Assuming you have a WHM in your group). By then, you're down to having only a couple of seconds to do that.

Think 2.0 Warrior having to choose between bonus healing from Wrath, or the self heal from Inner Beast. It's the same concept.. but one bad enough to insta-kill you if it isn't dealt with perfectly. There are only 3 things they need to look at though to fix it easily:

1. Give Walking Dead a visual to stronger notify others when you are undead. I recommended using the one your other half has during the level 50 Quest here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...lames-are-LOVE! (2nd Image is it) It would make sense, seeing as you get the ability during that quest, and your other half even mentioned taking control the first opportunity it gets, if you let your guard down.

2. Separate the immortal status, and the health healed requirement into 2 different debuffs. This is the biggest problem the ability has. A healer should not be able to remove my immortality just by doing their job and healing me, or panicking because I nearly died and instantly throwing a benediction at me. Imagine if Hollowed Ground or Holmgang wore off if the Pld/War was healed. That's what it's like.

3. (Personal gripe) Are we self healing tanks or not? Choose, and stick with it, because right now we're a half fast excuse of a self healing tank with Souleater. A Paladin can Hollowed and then Double Clemency. A War can Holmgang and then Equi/thrill/whatever else and pump his own HP back up easily to a spot where he isn't going to be backhanded away. What can we do as Drk in a situation where we do not have a healer? Like hell we're Souleater'ing 100% of our HP within the duration of Walking Dead. It just doesn't make sense to me why we're such a selfish tank in design, yet still so dependent on others doing things for us more so than both Paladin and Warrior are.

Very small detail about Holmgang in particular(and I guess living dead) and in the context of T12. Since it pushes you down to 1 HP its actually potentially another cheese method as it is one of the many ways you can proc a burst LB fill. The requirement is having been healed from critical health(10% or lower) and this was utilized to get LB2 for a ... 5? 4? I forget.. Bennu push back when I was progressing. It's quite a neat effect that not many people actually know about. So theres that for Pros vs HG. :3

Example: http://youtu.be/boZ9HG5LxwU
Watch the first two revelations and the LB bar.

Here's my idea for LD. A bit of a different take on it more like a rework then an adjustment.
When you activate walking dead, at that point a big reaper appears above your head slowly preparing to kill you. You have 10 seconds of invulnerability, immobility, and pacification. As you get healed to full the reaper goes away and you are saved but the difference is with invulnerability you aren't taking damage while your getting healed with your health going up and down causing panic for your healers. It will just rise. As your hp rises the reaper fades more and more making it really easy to tell what is going on. The invulnerability still ends when your back to full hp but without your hp rising AND dropping it will be easier for your healers to top you off at the right time.
I think this is interesting and a bit unique. But I doubt squeenix would put in the reaper VFX because that requires more work then I think they care to add