Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

[Kiote]

You're really stretching to make XI seem like it was anything more than standing in place. In my seven years in game, I never once saw a skill chain and magic burst on any endgame enemy.

The only person who and any sort of talent in XI was Avesta. And that's because he was a trailblazer.

Every single XI endgame event was the same. Tank, heal and zerg. That's it. Some threw a curve ball and the Thief had to sac pull, or an army of Red Mages kept a stun rotation. But none of that took any talent. Only an attention span.

XI endgame was all about throwing bodies at a situation until victory occurred.

Your very clearly a Massive liar. Anyone who played FFXI for the first seven years it was out knows very well that every boss fight required people to do more than just stand around auto attacking. The only time a Boss fight became easy is when SE inevitably Nerfed it so small groups could win because the majority had already finished it.

As far as your throw bodies comment. Groups were capped at 18, if you wanted to use more than that you would have to do party swapping which was a far more in depth mechanic than most MMOs involve.

Unless you only started playing in 2009, everything you have argued is just a blatant lie.

[Sephrick]

Your very clearly a Massive liar. Anyone who played FFXI for the first seven years it was out knows very well that every boss fight required people to do more than just stand around auto attacking. The only time a Boss fight became easy is when SE inevitably Nerfed it so small groups could win because the majority had already finished it.

As far as your throw bodies comment. Groups were capped at 18, if you wanted to use more than that you would have to do party swapping which was a far more in depth mechanic than most MMOs involve.

Unless you only started playing in 2009, everything you have argued is just a blatant lie.

Try me. The only thing I didn't get to do was Salvage. Name anything and I'll tell you how pathetically easy it was.

I was in Empire in Ramuh, and we were the premier LS on the server for a long time.

As far as your throw bodies comment. Groups were capped at 18, if you wanted to use more than that you would have to do party swapping which was a far more in depth mechanic than most MMOs involve.

/pcmd add "name" is an in depth end game mechanic to you?

[quantumsaint]

You're really stretching to make XI seem like it was anything more than standing in place. In my seven years in game, I never once saw a skill chain and magic burst on any endgame enemy.

The only person who and any sort of talent in XI was Avesta. And that's because he was a trailblazer.

Every single XI endgame event was the same. Tank, heal and zerg. That's it. Some threw a curve ball and the Thief had to sac pull, or an army of Red Mages kept a stun rotation. But none of that took any talent. Only an attention span.

XI endgame was all about throwing bodies at a situation until victory occurred.

I disagree about Avesta being the only trailblazer of note. Just have to name drop Kanican (or Kaeko, rather) for unraveling enmity, soloing Limbus, pioneering pinning, and popularizing blink casting, not to mention his numerous other solo/low man accomplishments.

Also, I was asked to MB a bunch in sky, sea, HNMs etc. I appreciate the fact that you didn't use those strategies, but that doesn't mean that other people didn't make use of them.

[Sephrick]

I disagree about Avesta being the only trailblazer of note. Just have to name drop Kanican (or Kaeko, rather) for unraveling enmity, soloing Limbus, pioneering pinning, and popularizing blink casting, not to mention his numerous other solo/low man accomplishments.

Also, I was asked to MB a bunch in sky, sea, HNMs etc. I appreciate the fact that you didn't use those strategies, but that doesn't mean that other people didn't make use of them.

I can concede to the Avesta point. He was the most popular trailblazer.

[Nikita]

TO summarize this entire thread:

WAAAA I DONT HAVE ANYONE TO PLAY WITH PENALIZE THOSE THAT DO SO I CAN ALSO HAVE FUN WAAAAAAAA

Pretty much! ^_^

[DeadRiser]

I can concede to the Avesta point. He was the most popular trailblazer.

I'm just quoting you to ask a question...

So you think (or did SE say) that the leveling curve will change after 2.0? That PL won't necessarily be as bad becuase there will be content all over the place and for all levels?

[Sephrick]

I'm just quoting you to ask a question...

So you think (or did SE say) that the leveling curve will change after 2.0? That PL won't necessarily be as bad becuase there will be content all over the place and for all levels?

SE hasn't said anything about what TNLs will be like after 51, to my knowledge.

But look at it this way. Right now, the TNL for 50-51 is 110,000. A 10,000 exp jump from 49-50. So if that trend continues we have:

50-51: 110,000
51-52: 120,000
52-53: 130,000
53-54: 140,000
54-55: 150,000
55-56: 160,000
56-57: 170,000
57-58: 180,000
58-59: 190,000
59-60: 200,000

This is based on only if SE doesn't continue to increase the jumps in TNLs as levels get higher, but for only 10 more levels, it'd take 1,550,000. To get to cap currently, it takes 1,891,150 exp.

For every 10 levels they add after level 50, at the current rate exp increases, the trip from 1 to cap doubles.

By the time the cap reaches 75 -- the long-time cap for XI -- the total amount of exp required will be well over 7 million.

If your average party can pull in 150,000 exp per hour (though, I believe this is a figure for PL'd parties. I've been leveling my Cnj, Thm and Arc in legitimate parties and it's been significantly lower) a group can reach the current cap in 12 hours of exping.

This 12 hours doesn't include time spent building a group, traveling (because teleports can only take you so far), resting, repairing, acquiring new gear and any other nature time sinks.

To some, this doesn't seem so bad. But consider the fact that it takes more than one class at cap to be effective at endgame. Even at soloing those first few levels it's to a player's benefit to level most classes to 5, if not 10 or 15.

To go from 74-75, we'd have a TNL of 350,000 -- again, using 75 as an example because it was XI's long-time cap and keeping true to using the in game TNL gap as the example and not assuming anything in order to keep the estimate on the low end.

So 61-75 is another 4,200,000 exp, for a total of 7,641,150. At an average rate of 150,000 per hour, it'd take approximately 50 hours of straight exp gain to go from 1 to cap.

But bare in mind, this isn't like XI where you supplement your classes by taking them a fraction of the way to cap.

In XIV, you might need to take multiple classes to cap if you really want to be the best. So if someone wants to be the best mage on their server, and for argument's sake let's say Archanist is out, it'd take 150 hours of exping to reach cap.

But sometimes, especially in XIV, it takes more than battle classes to be the best.

In come Disciples of the Hand.

It takes about 2 minutes to legitimately complete a synth. And because I like round numbers, we'll say a serious DoH can average 550 exp per synth, assuming they use the process of starting a synth 9 levels above them for about 700 exp success/250-300 on breaks.

That means each hour, a DoH can net 16,500 exp. So to take a DoH from 1-75 (if ever the cap gets there) it'd take about 463 hours. We know they intend to increase the level of DoH along with battle classes, as 1.19 introduced 51-60 level recipes.

This is where people put on blinders and fail to see the bigger picture.

XIV is about choice. A player can choose to have one PL'd class at cap just to experience the game with friends. Or they can commit themselves to being the best of the best by leveling multiple classes, including DoH and DoL.

They also fail to think beyond the moment, that the devs might just have a plan beyond what we have in the game now.

It's better to plan the exp curve and rate of exp ahead of time, and consider all angles.

The rate of exp does seem quick right now. And the "drop from party and kill" thing is broken and needs to be fixed.

But the rate at which a functional party can gain exp is being blown out of proportion.

All they need to do to fix the current situation is that exp is based on the level of your party when the mob is claimed. That way they don't have to get rid of the function to add and drop players during battle.

That's why my hope is that they make leveling an actual journey. The Grand Companies are the perfect mean to do so.

Grand Company leves should be epic. Dungeon crawls to meet formidable foes. Skirmishes with Imperial troops. DoHs could complete synths to supply the troops. DoLs can go out to collect samples for scientists to study a post-calamity Eorzea.

The original leves were sort of like that. But the text was bland. It should be presented in a traditional Final Fantasy way, cutscenes and the like. Every little action should feel like it matters in the world.

I don't care how long it takes to get to cap, as long as I feel like I'm playing the game. Killing the same monster repeated just because they happen to be the right level not only doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy, it doesn't even feel like game play.

[darkstarpoet1]

SE hasn't said anything about what TNLs will be like after 51, to my knowledge.

But look at it this way. Right now, the TNL for 50-51 is 110,000. A 10,000 exp jump from 49-50. So if that trend continues we have:

50-51: 110,000
51-52: 120,000
52-53: 130,000
53-54: 140,000
54-55: 150,000
55-56: 160,000
56-57: 170,000
57-58: 180,000
58-59: 190,000
59-60: 200,000

This is based on only if SE doesn't continue to increase the jumps in TNLs as levels get higher, but for only 10 more levels, it'd take 1,550,000. To get to cap currently, it takes 1,891,150 exp.

For every 10 levels they add after level 50, at the current rate exp increases, the trip from 1 to cap doubles.

By the time the cap reaches 75 -- the long-time cap for XI -- the total amount of exp required will be well over 7 million.

If your average party can pull in 150,000 exp per hour (though, I believe this is a figure for PL'd parties. I've been leveling my Cnj, Thm and Arc in legitimate parties and it's been significantly lower) a group can reach the current cap in 12 hours of exping.

This 12 hours doesn't include time spent building a group, traveling (because teleports can only take you so far), resting, repairing, acquiring new gear and any other nature time sinks.

To some, this doesn't seem so bad. But consider the fact that it takes more than one class at cap to be effective at endgame. Even at soloing those first few levels it's to a player's benefit to level most classes to 5, if not 10 or 15.

To go from 74-75, we'd have a TNL of 350,000 -- again, using 75 as an example because it was XI's long-time cap and keeping true to using the in game TNL gap as the example and not assuming anything in order to keep the estimate on the low end.

So 61-75 is another 4,200,000 exp, for a total of 7,641,150. At an average rate of 150,000 per hour, it'd take approximately 50 hours of straight exp gain to go from 1 to cap.

But bare in mind, this isn't like XI where you supplement your classes by taking them a fraction of the way to cap.

In XIV, you might need to take multiple classes to cap if you really want to be the best. So if someone wants to be the best mage on their server, and for argument's sake let's say Archanist is out, it'd take 150 hours of exping to reach cap.

But sometimes, especially in XIV, it takes more than battle classes to be the best.

In come Disciples of the Hand.

It takes about 2 minutes to legitimately complete a synth. And because I like round numbers, we'll say a serious DoH can average 550 exp per synth, assuming they use the process of starting a synth 9 levels above them for about 700 exp success/250-300 on breaks.

That means each hour, a DoH can net 16,500 exp. So to take a DoH from 1-75 (if ever the cap gets there) it'd take about 463 hours. We know they intend to increase the level of DoH along with battle classes, as 1.19 introduced 51-60 level recipes.

This is where people put on blinders and fail to see the bigger picture.

XIV is about choice. A player can choose to have one PL'd class at cap just to experience the game with friends. Or they can commit themselves to being the best of the best by leveling multiple classes, including DoH and DoL.

They also fail to think beyond the moment, that the devs might just have a plan beyond what we have in the game now.

It's better to plan the exp curve and rate of exp ahead of time, and consider all angles.

The rate of exp does seem quick right now. And the "drop from party and kill" thing is broken and needs to be fixed.

But the rate at which a functional party can gain exp is being blown out of proportion.

All they need to do to fix the current situation is that exp is based on the level of your party when the mob is claimed. That way they don't have to get rid of the function to add and drop players during battle.

That's why my hope is that they make leveling an actual journey. The Grand Companies are the perfect mean to do so.

Grand Company leves should be epic. Dungeon crawls to meet formidable foes. Skirmishes with Imperial troops. DoHs could complete synths to supply the troops. DoLs can go out to collect samples for scientists to study a post-calamity Eorzea.

The original leves were sort of like that. But the text was bland. It should be presented in a traditional Final Fantasy way, cutscenes and the like. Every little action should feel like it matters in the world.

I don't care how long it takes to get to cap, as long as I feel like I'm playing the game. Killing the same monster repeated just because they happen to be the right level not only doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy, it doesn't even feel like game play.

when was the cap raised to 75? i think the only thing i have heard is that while the cap is still relatively low that this was not a good time for this fast of sp. i you can cap every battle/magic class in a week from start to finish it is too fast. once the cap is increased i don't think anyone would care if they added this type of sp for the lower ranked players to allow them a chance to catch up to where people were.

the problem is that you are talking about future things that have not happened and nobody knows when it will. people are talking about current state of the game and they are dead on. once the cap is increased sure make the 1-50 easier for the newer players, but not while 50 is still the cap.

[Sephrick]

when was the cap raised to 75? i think the only thing i have heard is that while the cap is still relatively low that this was not a good time for this fast of sp. i you can cap every battle/magic class in a week from start to finish it is too fast. once the cap is increased i don't think anyone would care if they added this type of sp for the lower ranked players to allow them a chance to catch up to where people were.

the problem is that you are talking about future things that have not happened and nobody knows when it will. people are talking about current state of the game and they are dead on. once the cap is increased sure make the 1-50 easier for the newer players, but not while 50 is still the cap.

The whole point of the math was that they need to plan for the future. That way they don't have to rebalance exp rates and tnls every time they bump up the cap.

Like I said, at the current curve growth for every 10 levels they add the time it takes to reach cap doubles. If the game hadn't flopped, we may have been working on getting our classes to 60 or 70 by now.

But things worked out the way they did and it's taking a little longer for that to happen because Yoshida has said he doesn't want too much of a gap between 1.x, 2.0 and PS3 players.

It also needs to stay as fast as it currently is for a reason that just doesn't seem to be getting through to people: SE has limited resources for 1.x. They decided to make all capped content. Therefore they need to allow new players the opportunity to experience it before the one-time calamity event wipes or alters most of it.

Especially since they're going to start pushing the game again as soon as E3 2012. "Come and take the opportunity to be ahead of the curve" is far more inviting than "Come and miss out on the content because you'll be killing Raptors for three months."

[Nero]

Lmao! Why do you try so hard ? i mean it does not changes the truth :/

AV- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgIRMTPMPko
Jorm- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftkk-...eature=related
Vrtra- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftkk-...eature=related

All tank and spank all of them :/

Oh and mirmiron phase 2 is untankable as is phase 3 :/ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjzBdfDo6xY

Can you read? PLEASE, CAN YOU LEARN TO READ?

PRE TOAU.. Showing me Stuff from 2010 when FFXI and in fact AV, was allready nerfed just shows that you didnt read anything i wrote. PRE-TOAU.. 2010 is POST-Abyssea. I said AV WITHOUT WALL-Glitch and before it was nerfed which was namely in WoTG. Seriously some people have a hard time with understanding a simple sentence, it looks like.

Showing me Stuff from Things which got nerfed doesnt proof anything of your Statement. I was always talking about Pre-ToAU. Whats wrong with you that you think any of those Vids is PRE-ToAU? you are just showing Fights in a nerfed Point and didnt get the Point that FFXI was far away from beeing like that in the first Years.