Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

[Sorel]

So we really have no proof that any of our generalizations are true, no matter what faction we belong to in this argument. So once we get away from these generalizations we keep making and start dealing with specific instances, testimonials if you will, we can start establishing some basis of facts that we can use to establish valid arguments.

For example:

Community Member Post "A": Last night I was in a Light Party and a PL-party was next to us in camp, and I went from level 30-35 in 2 hours. The PL-party did not affect our light party's ability to kill mobs or recruit and keep members during that time.

Community Member Post "X": Yesterday, I tried to form a light party, but no one would agree to join unless there was a PL. After an hour of trying, I finally had to give up and solo instead.

Those are examples of facts. The reasons why they happened the way they happened can and should be debated, but the fact that they happened would be indisputable. Ideally, that's how this discussion would proceed. I might be naive, though.

[Krausus]

So we really have no proof that any of our generalizations are true, no matter what faction we belong to in this argument. So once we get away from these generalizations we keep making and start dealing with specific instances, testimonials if you will, we can start establishing some basis of facts that we can use to establish valid arguments.

For example:

Community Member Post "A": Last night I was in a Light Party and a PL-party was next to us in camp, and I went from level 30-35 in 2 hours. The PL-party did not affect our light party's ability to kill mobs or recruit and keep members during that time.

Community Member Post "X": Yesterday, I tried to form a light party, but no one would agree to join unless there was a PL. After an hour of trying, I finally had to give up and solo instead.

Those are examples of facts. The reasons why they happened the way they happened can and should be debated, but the fact that they happened would be indisputable. Ideally, that's how this discussion would proceed. I might be naive, though.

If only things could stay on such a path unfortunately....well I'm sure you know.

[Belial]

So we really have no proof that any of our generalizations are true, no matter what faction we belong to in this argument. So once we get away from these generalizations we keep making and start dealing with specific instances, testimonials if you will, we can start establishing some basis of facts that we can use to establish valid arguments.

For example:

Community Member Post "A": Last night I was in a Light Party and a PL-party was next to us in camp, and I went from level 30-35 in 2 hours. The PL-party did not affect our light party's ability to kill mobs or recruit and keep members during that time.

Community Member Post "X": Yesterday, I tried to form a light party, but no one would agree to join unless there was a PL. After an hour of trying, I finally had to give up and solo instead.

Those are examples of facts. The reasons why they happened the way they happened can and should be debated, but the fact that they happened would be indisputable. Ideally, that's how this discussion would proceed. I might be naive, though.

I'm a victim of naivete as well. But really, have you seen heated topics on this forum? You're simply going to be white-washed with more of "No, this is the way it is, it doesn't matter what you say. You obviously haven't read {insert opinionated reference}. You don't understand." etc. etc.

[Smashington]

I am not playing FFXIV because of PL. Specifically, AFK PL.

I feel the least I can do is continue to contribute to this discussion in hopes that FFXIV will become a satisfying game again one day.

But you say the game is working as intended and all is well? SE certainly has shown no indication that the current system is going to be changed.

I'll keep watching the latest patch notes for some sign that AFK PL is being addressed. Until then, I certainly won't be paying for a game that I won't even play for free.

[Darkscorpion]

I already subscribe for 3 months in advance * (HATERS WILL HATE)

[Krausus]

I am not playing FFXIV because of PL. Specifically, AFK PL.

I feel the least I can do is continue to contribute to this discussion in hopes that FFXIV will become a satisfying game again one day.

But you say the game is working as intended and all is well? SE certainly has shown no indication that the current system is going to be changed.

I'll keep watching the latest patch notes for some sign that AFK PL is being addressed. Until then, I certainly won't be paying for a game that I won't even play for free.

ok so 1 person I guess SE should piss off a massive amount of people for your 9 bucks a month

[Sephrick]

The best solution imo is to make leveling happen over the course of adventuring, so that people who plevel are essentially skipping real content instead of just grind. Ehhh honestly i dont think there is a perfect answer here.

This is the "Final Fantasy" I remember.

Rarely did I ever run in circles killing the same monsters over and over unless I was short a few Gil and needed to upgrade equipment.

I could care less if there were 1,000 levels and it took 10 years to get to cap as long as leveling is something that happens during content.

I always got my levels in every FF on the way to the next piece of the story or boss. In XI and XIV it just feels like a disjointed chore.

[Physic]

This is the "Final Fantasy" I remember.

Rarely did I ever run in circles killing the same monsters over and over unless I was short a few Gil and needed to upgrade equipment.

I could care less if there were 1,000 levels and it took 10 years to get to cap as long as leveling is something that happens during content.

I always got my levels in every FF on the way to the next piece of the story or boss. In XI and XIV it just feels like a disjointed chore.

yeah i never really understood why the genre shifted from rpg to grind heavy, i mean, i know some people liked to grind and be super powerful for each stage of content in rpgs, but fairly sure the majority of people leveled through the content, and only grinded once they wanted to get to some special content/after they had done everything else.

It makes actual content kind of suck and feel weak, since the chances are probably not at the right content level for whatever the content is.

One solution is to add some actual new adventure based content with optional level caps, where on choosing to be capped you get a tangible bonus to exp/items/GC points or something.

and i mean real content, something probably with an objective, AND a story, with even some exploration involved.

[Rowyne]

This is the "Final Fantasy" I remember.

Rarely did I ever run in circles killing the same monsters over and over unless I was short a few Gil and needed to upgrade equipment.

I could care less if there were 1,000 levels and it took 10 years to get to cap as long as leveling is something that happens during content.

I always got my levels in every FF on the way to the next piece of the story or boss. In XI and XIV it just feels like a disjointed chore.

I think this is the real heart of the matter, right here.

How did a game in the Final Fantasy series--RPGs with stories so engaging you couldn't wait to find out what happened next--become grind fests devoid of content?

Undisguised grinding (as described in the above quote, repeatedly killing the same monsters over and over) should only have to be done in brief amounts, to bridge any small gaps between content, to quickly finish out a level, or farming for items/rep. It should never be the meat and potatoes of any modern MMORPG.

This game has never done a very good job at planning ahead. Upon release, guildleves and behests were pretty much the only content you had to level from. When it was discovered that going from 1-50 primarily from leves was pretty much driving players insane, Yoshi-P made the announcement that FFXIV would shift from a grind-centric game, with ever-expanding content and a variety of leveling options. Leves were no longer the main focus and shifted to solo content. It was a great idea, and the right direction to go. Problem was, they did that before putting enough alternatives in place. A handful of quests, two instanced dungeons and the beginnings of the Grand Companies do not qualify as engaging leveling content (I don't mean to sound ungrateful that the dev team has implemented this, but it's just not enough). So, ironically, what is now the main focus of leveling? Grinding.

Tell me again how we're shifting from a grind-centric game...?

I think a lot people, no matter how they feel about powerleveling, will agree that mindless grinding is not fun. The real problem is that SE is, once again, breaking an aspect of their game to 'fix' something else. Like the RMT preventions originally in place - software mouse, fatigue, market wards. Choices that lead to future issues. Allowing powerleveling may help people overlook the glaring lack of content and skyrocket through the grind, but it will lead to other problems.

I usually hate when people talk about other games like this, but... I got my husband SW:TOR for Christmas, and a copy for myself so I could play with him. It's honestly not even a genre I'm particularly interested in, but I gave it a try. We started playing Friday, and continued on Saturday. In fact, our first play session lasted 15 hours we were having so much fun. And we're not even level 15 yet. It's all story-driven questing. We already did a mini-dungeon at level 10. It was difficult to admit that I've had more fun playing that game this weekend than the one year plus I've been playing FFXIV.

It made me realize that this game needs some major restructuring. I'm not asking for non-stop voiced-over cinematic cutscenes (though at least one game has now proven that it's feasible). But it definitely needs some real story-driven content, at all levels, to keep my attention. The leveling options that Yoshi-P talked about once upon a time. Don't give us ways to quickly bypass the levels. Give us content that makes us want to play through the levels. And if that doesn't happen with 2.0, I'm afraid a lot of players will look elsewhere to games that can and will offer it.

TL;DR Powerleveling is a cheap 'fix' for a bigger problem.

[DeadRiser]

I think this is the real heart of the matter, right here.

How did a game in the Final Fantasy series--RPGs with stories so engaging you couldn't wait to find out what happened next--become grind fests devoid of content?

Undisguised grinding (as described in the above quote, repeatedly killing the same monsters over and over) should only have to be done in brief amounts, to bridge any small gaps between content, to quickly finish out a level, or farming for items/rep. It should never be the meat and potatoes of any modern MMORPG.

This game has never done a very good job at planning ahead. Upon release, guildleves and behests were pretty much the only content you had to level from. When it was discovered that going from 1-50 primarily from leves was pretty much driving players insane, Yoshi-P made the announcement that FFXIV would shift from a grind-centric game, with ever-expanding content and a variety of leveling options. Leves were no longer the main focus and shifted to solo content. It was a great idea, and the right direction to go. Problem was, they did that before putting enough alternatives in place. A handful of quests, two instanced dungeons and the beginnings of the Grand Companies do not qualify as engaging leveling content (I don't mean to sound ungrateful that the dev team has implemented this, but it's just not enough). So, ironically, what is now the main focus of leveling? Grinding.

Tell me again how we're shifting from a grind-centric game...?

I think a lot people, no matter how they feel about powerleveling, will agree that mindless grinding is not fun. The real problem is that SE is, once again, breaking an aspect of their game to 'fix' something else. Like the RMT preventions originally in place - software mouse, fatigue, market wards. Choices that lead to future issues. Allowing powerleveling may help people overlook the glaring lack of content and skyrocket through the grind, but it will lead to other problems.

I usually hate when people talk about other games like this, but... I got my husband SW:TOR for Christmas, and a copy for myself so I could play with him. It's honestly not even a genre I'm particularly interested in, but I gave it a try. We started playing Friday, and continued on Saturday. In fact, our first play session lasted 15 hours we were having so much fun. And we're not even level 15 yet. It's all story-driven questing. We already did a mini-dungeon at level 10. It was difficult to admit that I've had more fun playing that game this weekend than the one year plus I've been playing FFXIV.

It made me realize that this game needs some major restructuring. I'm not asking for non-stop voiced-over cinematic cutscenes (though at least one game has now proven that it's feasible). But it definitely needs some real story-driven content, at all levels, to keep my attention. The leveling options that Yoshi-P talked about once upon a time. Don't give us ways to quickly bypass the levels. Give us content that makes us want to play through the levels. And if that doesn't happen with 2.0, I'm afraid a lot of players will look elsewhere to games that can and will offer it.

TL;DR Powerleveling is a cheap 'fix' for a bigger problem.

The truth, nothing but the damn truth.

But of course, I'd be not even the slightest surprised if all the people for powerleveling won't answer to this.

Progression is what makes an MMO, not getting to cap the fastest.