Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

[Sorel]

There are two finite resources we are talking about here.

1. Players
2. Camps

For every PL-party there is at least 2 players less that is available for grind-parties. And for every PL-party there is 1 less camp that is available for grind-parties. Unfortunately it's a zero-sum game. The existence PL-parties hinders grind-parties. The more prevalent PL-parties are, the more they hinder grind-parties.

Now this logic also holds true for soloing. So by my logic, soloing also hinders grind-parties, no?? Yes ... but to a much smaller extent. It only takes one player out of the potential grind-party pool, instead of two. Multiply that difference to a server scale and it's dramatic. Also, to DarkstarPoet's point, the XP earned by playing solo is arithmetically comparable (half, double, triple, etc) with grind-party XP. Meanwhile PL-party XP is exponentially larger (10x, 100x, etc) than grind-party XP. That exaggerated XP growth only encourages more PL-parties, and diminishes the ability of grind-parties to form even further.

Some can argue that PL-parties are just a "playstyle", and that players should be able to do it because it doesn't hurt anything ... but I wouldn't make that argument.

[Krausus]

There are two finite resources we are talking about here.

1. Players
2. Camps

For every PL-party there is at least 2 players less that is available for grind-parties. And for every PL-party there is 1 less camp that is available for grind-parties. Unfortunately it's a zero-sum game. The existence PL-parties hinders grind-parties. The more prevalent PL-parties are, the more they hinder grind-parties.

Now this logic also holds true for soloing. So by my logic, soloing also hinders grind-parties, no?? Yes ... but to a much smaller extent. It only takes one player out of the potential grind-party pool, instead of two. Multiply that difference to a server scale and it's dramatic. Also, to DarkstarPoet's point, the XP earned by playing solo is arithmetically comparable (half, double, triple, etc) with grind-party XP. Meanwhile PL-party XP is exponentially larger (10x, 100x, etc) than grind-party XP. That exaggerated XP growth only encourages more PL-parties, and diminishes the ability of grind-parties to form even further.

Some can argue that PL-parties are just a "playstyle", and that players should be able to do it because it doesn't hurt anything ... but I wouldn't make that argument.

I think you might find that most of the people getting PLed are doing it in LS or with certain LS friends that probably wouldn't join pug grind parties anyways.

regardless you are still trying to force others to play your way or with you which will never happen. People with your type of mentality usually dont get along with others.

PS: I very rarely if ever come across others wanting a spot chosen for PLing that weren't there to also PL. Most grind camps are not used in PLing.

[Sorel]

I think you might find that most of the people getting PLed are doing it in LS or with certain LS friends that probably wouldn't join pug grind parties anyways.

regardless you are still trying to force others to play your way or with you which will never happen. People with your type of mentality usually dont get along with others.

PS: I very rarely if ever come across others wanting a spot chosen for PLing that weren't there to also PL. Most grind camps are not used in PLing.

Your first point is quite valid. Players who want to play specifically with other players should not be hindered, especially if they are LS-mates. My only contention with that is that they should not get 10 to 20 times more XP than a standard Full Party. I humbly submit that a Level Syncing system would serve them just as well without throwing the entire community out of balance.

Your second point may also be true as well (though not valid). Every community ... every society, has to have a set of rules in order to not implode. Some are written, some are unwritten. Some are lightly enforced, some are heavily enforced.

But (you may say) this is just a game. Well, games have rules too. How much they are enforced completely depends on who you are playing with, and how much they tolerate the bending and breaking of the game rules.

For example ... when playing chess with someone, I let them use the "castling" move even if they may have already moved their King piece, though that is against the rules, strictly speaking. However, I do not allow players to play naked, no matter how much they claim it is their chess playstyle. It is simply an unwritten rule. Am I forcing them to play my way (i.e. fully clothed)?? Probably. But just because I am forcing them doesn't mean that they're right and I am wrong. They have to have a valid reason ... Free-wheeling whimsy isn't enough.

So far, from reading ALL the posts in this thread, you sir are the only one to come close to providing a valid reason why PL-partying should be allowed (i.e. playing with LS-mates). Getting 20 times more XP is not a valid reason, in and of itself.

[Krausus]

So far, from reading ALL the posts in this thread, you sir are the only one to come close to providing a valid reason why PL-partying should be allowed (i.e. playing with LS-mates). Getting 20 times more XP is not a valid reason, in and of itself.

yeah but I think that is a separate debate and has more to do with XP balance than anything else. Unfortunately there is so much hyperbole in this thread a new one would need to be started with a disclaimer of prove your claims.

[Firon]

How does a pl pt hinder a grind pt when another grind pt could be in that spot and hinder another pt from grinding......

[Synthesis]

If you re low, dont count on with normal party. lol. EVeryone is getting pwrlinvg and if you wanna go normal exp, no one likes it. Why would they, they can get exp faster way. You re an exceptions. Pwrlvl is only way of leveling till 35, at least on my server. :P

[DeadRiser]

3 more camps taken by PL to that other post I posted earlier. Yes this was all in one day. I even fought back against the PL's for the camp to kick them out.

It's sad when you have to resort to taking a PL camp to effectively level up in a group setting.

[Rowyne]

3 more camps taken by PL to that other post I posted earlier. Yes this was all in one day. I even fought back against the PL's for the camp to kick them out.

It's sad when you have to resort to taking a PL camp to effectively level up in a group setting.

This is another example of why the devs really need to think twice about how PLing is affecting the community.

Weighing the pros and cons, I'm finding there are more negatives to powerleveling than positives:

Advantages

• New and returning players can play with high level friends.
• Low level players can move toward high level content more quickly.

Disadvantages

• As the playerbase becomes prematurely top-heavy, finding others to experience low-mid level content with becomes more difficult. Even moreso if you wish to experience it with a level-appropriate group. This alienates new and low level players who wish to experience the game as it was meant to be played.
• Similarly, the demand for additional low-mid level content becomes less vocalized as many people simply bypass it, leaving new and low level players with less to do.
• Those who wish to level via old-school grinding with a regular party will find it more difficult since many people now insist on bringing along a powerleveler.
• Camps fill up quickly with powerleveling parties in an environment that was never meant to allow for this kind of leveling design.
• Players who skyrocket to level cap by none of their own effort lack the proper knowledge or gear to participate in the endgame content they raced toward. People become less trusting of random players and are not as open to partying with new people that they do not know.
• All of the above points lead to frustration within the community. A community that cannot afford any more discontent right now.

[DeadRiser]

This is another example of why the devs really need to think twice about how PLing is affecting the community.

Weighing the pros and cons, I'm finding there are more negatives to powerleveling than positives:

Advantages

• New and returning players can play with high level friends.
• Low level players can move toward high level content more quickly.

Disadvantages

• As the playerbase becomes prematurely top-heavy, finding others to experience low-mid level content with becomes more difficult. Even moreso if you wish to experience it with a level-appropriate group. This alienates new and low level players who wish to experience the game as it was meant to be played.
• Similarly, the demand for additional low-mid level content becomes less vocalized as many people simply bypass it, leaving new and low level players with less to do.
• Those who wish to level via old-school grinding with a regular party will find it more difficult since many people now insist on bringing along a powerleveler.
• Camps fill up quickly with powerleveling parties in an environment that was never meant to allow for this kind of leveling design.
• Players who skyrocket to level cap by none of their own effort lack the proper knowledge or gear to participate in the endgame content they raced toward. People become less trusting of random players and are not as open to partying with new people that they do not know.
• All of the above points lead to frustration within the community. A community that cannot afford any more discontent right now.

I'm quoting this for truth.

To all the people saying that if the PL group wasn't there it would be taken over by a regular grind group.... At least we know they are working towards their higher levels like the rest of us. When you have the best grind party camps taken over by PL groups, it just really deters me from wanting to keep playing the game (no it really doesn't but it might to others xD) because it shows where the priority is in the community. Also brings out a lot of dicks as well.

I'd also like to point out about camp stealing going on before the patch. It's really rude when you have another grind party come and try to steal your camp. But that doesn't happen as often as a PL group coming steal your camp, and I really feel bad for the people that don't have 50's yet because they can't defend it themselves.

Camp stealing going on, change to 50 to defend the camp, goes on forever, and your party decides to disband. Yup don't say it hasn't happened, because it did to me last night. I don't give up when people try and steal our camp, but it definately hinders me and others from leveling up.