DRK - SS vs Det ?

[Vividos]

i cant seem to find any info regarding SS vs Det for DRK (yes, ive been looking)
given the way i play and the groups i run, im wearing mostly str accessories and i like doing damage.
im well aware of DRK's TP issues, and hopefully like the live letter implied, this will be addressed soon.

so if we take TP starvation out of the equation, which stat will result in more dps?

any help would be appreciated so i can make intelligent gearing choices with my esos and alex drops (gearing 3 different 60s = have to be fickle)

[Zorthos]

I've done a lot of testing. On paper you would think det would have heavier weight due to increasing damage to everything, but as a DRK ss crushes it, the changes to ss effecting dots is a big boon, on top of that using abilities faster will net more dps than a slight increase of everything with det. Crit is useless, with 630+ crit that's only roughly 10% critical chance, not worth it. Imo. I'm going for str, ss, det, crit. Since testing it started to make sense why our AF gear has so much ss on it. Also works well with blood weapon.

[Violette]

It's like this:

For every class (minus black mage), you have a finite amount of resources to face punch your target with.
Due to having finite resources, you do not want to be focusing on a lot of small little hits (or in black mage, a lot of big hits).


On top of that, due to Det no longer affecting auto-attacks and crit chance increasing both crit chance and crit damage (despite being 3.7x (roughly) less effective), crit on every job (except blm) is your massive winner. Even on blm, you gear ss>crit>det.

Now, because of this, you see Det values on gear approaching 1-1 with SS and Crit, reflecting change in Det's value.


So what does this mean?

In general, you will always want crit>det>ss unless you're a whm/Ast (det>pie/ss/crit for healing) or a blm (ss>crit>det).

Dark Knight TP issues are not so much a thing (at least A1S A2S and to an extent A3S), so we can safely ignore that discussion.


So crit >det/ss.

[Phoenicia]

...On top of that, due to Det no longer affecting auto-attack...
So crit >det/ss.

Please note: Determination STILL affects auto-attacks. It just affects them less than it used to in 2.xx. The 3.0 patch notes wording was such that it affects them less as opposed to "no longer affects auto-attack damage". I could quote but I'm too lazy to go back and find it in the patch notes.

Well, regardless of how finite (or infinite) resources are for classes, skill speed is a % increase to DPS and every class benefits greatly from it, specially now that it also affects DoTs. Most classes (all except DRK and PLD lol) have good ways to manage their resources anyways.

That said, I think the following order of stats should be followed:

WAR: Get SS to 470+ for the 9GCD zerk, then get as much as you can of the other stats in this order: Crit > Det > SS. WAR has good native crit chance (4.7% average from Abandon, or 10% on FC, and 10% more from Internal Release) so the "stronger" those crits get, the better.
WAR has 1 weak DOT that ticks on a 200 potency (100 initial + 200) so SS isn't as important for their "DoT damage". But WAR practically has infinite TP so skill speed doesn't hurt them in that regard. However, the more SS you get, the more the pacification from Berserk "hurts" since the 5s become more than 2 GCDs.

PLD and DRK: They have no native crit chance. I believe PLD and DRK should go for DET = Crit > SS. Also the lack of resource management makes SS "worse" on them. Even though they have powerful DoTs (500+ potency) so SS would benefit them nicely. Also it would allow PLD to fit in 1 more GCD (Shield Swipe or Stance change) and still reapply Goring Blade before it drops. SS has nice potential on these two but the lack of resource management is the main deterrent.

One would argue that fights have TP breaks and that "TP issues are not so much a thing", but Skill Speed means you may floor your TP before those breaks happen. I'm speaking from experience here.

On a side note regarding the other classes, I think SMNs arguably benefit more from SS than Det now. So they follow a Crit > SS >= Det priority. SCH should be similar for DPS, but since they don't have that many HoTs (if at all), they should focus on Crit > det = SS.

As for BLM, I think they have a resource people don't consider much: Server clock tick! Once you have too much Spell Speed, timing those MP ticks in Umbral Blizzard becomes a thing. Also I dun know if Det became a worse stat for BLM, it was their top priority in 2.5. If anything, I think their stats shifted to Det > Crit > SS. Determination should be their top stat since BLM doesn't Auto-attack anyways, SS became less important than crit was. I think there isn't enough testing out there to verify. I wish Puro Strider would update his sheet.

I also am not sure I agree with the WHM/ASK priority you listed as skill speed affects HoTs greater than Det now. But I could be wrong as my only healer is SCH atm.

[MythToken]

Please note: Determination STILL affects auto-attacks.

WAR: Get SS to 470+ for the 9GCD zerk,

This i don't believe is true at all, sorry. There have been numerous confirms that Det does not affect AA anymore.

Also SS>det for warrior. SS is never a waste since we have unlimited TP. 500+ ftw

[Instrumentality]

This i don't believe is true at all, sorry. There have been numerous confirms that Det does not affect AA anymore.

3.0 Patch Notes:

[2.0] Player attributes have been adjusted as follows:
Skilspeed and spellspeed now affect damage over time and healing over time effects.
The effect of determination on auto-attacks has been reduced.
Critical hit rate now affects damage dealt with a critical strike.
Certain attributes no longer affect parry or block.

Reduced. Not removed. Please show me this confirmation of zero damage contribution from determination to auto attacks, thank you.

[Rbstr]

As long as you're not wasting a bunch of secondary stats on accuracy (over the cap) or parry, there's not really a whole ton of difference in the end between them. (As the total # of secondary points ramps up over time this will become less true)

[Zorthos]

As a DRK ss is so much better than det and crit. With 645 crit that is roughly 10% chance, it's not worth the sustain loss from ss and det. Imo should be STR, SS, DET, CRT. The higher your sustain the more consent dps you do since it's 100% increase Vs crit being a low chance of maybe doing higher dmg. Now if your sustain is high and you do crit you will we be hitting like a truck.

[Sapphidia]

The higher your sustain the more consent dps you do since it's 100% increase Vs crit being a low chance of maybe doing higher dmg.

No. No no. This is just a fallacy and the wrong way of thinking. You have to average stuff out over time. Yes, Det increases every hit and Crit might only increase 10% of your hits, but if the Det you have only increases every hit by 1% then the crit will be better.

You cannot say "det/sks is better because crit is only a chance". You have to have exact figures. 10% crit chance at +50% bonus is a 5% increase in damage, period (I'm not sure on what the actual crit damage of this would be, just for the sake of example). If the same amount of Det were to increase your damage by less than 5%, the crit would be the better choice.

[Phoenicia]

No. No no. This is just a fallacy and the wrong way of thinking. You have to average stuff out over time. Yes, Det increases every hit and Crit might only increase 10% of your hits, but if the Det you have only increases every hit by 1% then the crit will be better.

You cannot say "det/sks is better because crit is only a chance". You have to have exact figures. 10% crit chance at +50% bonus is a 5% increase in damage, period (I'm not sure on what the actual crit damage of this would be, just for the sake of example). If the same amount of Det were to increase your damage by less than 5%, the crit would be the better choice.

Crit now increases chance AND damage by the same percentage. SO if you have enough to increase chance by 10%, your crit damage also increased by 10%. Base chance is 4.95% and base crit damage is 145%.

I then tested identical tier foods one with crit other with ss at the same max lvl. Crit was still 10% but with SS I gained ~120 dps. Why? With the new change to SS effecting DoT's was a massive boost...Salt the earth and scourge both increased by 20dps alone...that's 40 combined

I'm sorry, I find it hard to believe that food alone increased your DPS by as much as 120. Food doesn't provide 10% of our total stats increase as much as it would increase your DPS by over 15%. At most I would think food is 3~5% increase.

Also, DRK has severe TP issues, adding skill speed will only mean you won't even parse for 2m45s. You will probably floor at 2 minutes flat.