The Housing problem and my proposed solution

[Preypacer]

@ Preypacer
The graphics do look bland on those videos and the building look very basic with not much details. Ok let's say those do housing itself better than FFXIV according to you.

Graphics are not a Housing System.

You're looking at games that are upwards of 10+ years old, built for older systems, with much lower hardware specs... running hardware (servers, broadband connection speeds, etc) that were also much lower. Yet, those older MMOs managed to pull off what they did, for all characters. Meanwhile, SE can't pull off what is really a pretty basic housing system, without leaving many players and FCs waiting and hoping for the chance to get one.. somewhere down the road. If they're lucky.

The bigger question is:
What purpose do those houses serve besides decorating?
Is there any content that can only be done from those houses like Skycastles or FFXIV guild airships?
Can large groups of people hang out in the same area or do they have to zone into different instances?

Well, your questions are completely besides the point, and are not at all the big question. More of a deflection from the main point, really.

All of those things being tied to FC housing are great.. if you're fortunate enough to be in a FC that has a house, or are able to get one yourself. But many can't.And that is the key problem here, which some people seem determined to argue around, make excuses for, or otherwise avoid addressing.

However, regarding what you can do in those housing systems.. I'll cover EQ2, in particular, at least as much as I remember from last time I played...

Well, for starters, in EQ2, if you want a house, you can actually get one. You can get up to 25, if you want. That alone sets it apart, without even getting into anything else.

However, you can have crafting stations, a huge variety of housing items (walls, stairs, etc), decorations that can be rotated and scaled, to suit your likes/needs, expanded storage (which you can increase significantly by using large storage boxes), NPCs to buy/sell goods, Market Boards to sell your wares from (and others to come buy directly from, to avoid broker fees), you can have teleports between all your houses (up to 25 of them), making hopping between them very easy. You can have furniture that lowers the upkeep cost (of course, only relevant because EQ2 has them).

And of course, there's the same reasons many people enjoy housing in any game - it gives them a way to express themselves creatively, and to give them a place "of their own" online. In EQ2, you can also have pets in it, which will interact with you, and with each other. There's a very large, and very active community that's developed around EQ2's housing, such is its importance and relevance to the game, and its players.

EQ2 has had all of that stuff for up to a decade or longer... and it's been available for every single character created in the world since the beginning.

Let's look at some other possibilities for guild based content for Free Companies shall we?

-Airship Guild Vs Guild(Battle Airships designed and controlled by FC possibility)
-Submarine exploration(Designed and controlled by FC)
-Lunar expeditions(Spaceship designed and controlled by FC)
-Magitek Armor crafting( Designed and controlled by FC for guild vs guild wars)
-Magitek Battle/Racing circuits(Designed and controller by FC, Nascar type race teams(FC teams), think pod racing in Star Wars), with rankings, rewards, achievements,etc.

Hypotheticals are never the basis for a debate or meaningful discussion. However, all those things, if they were implemented, would be separate systems, apart from the Housing itself, and could be accessed from outside a FC House, and without the need for a FC house, if SE decided to implement them in such a way. SE is already making this possible with airships and chocobo stables... both of which have been announced as becoming available even without a FC house at some point in the future. This is one of the concessions it seems SE has had to make, as a result of their poorly designed/implemented housing system. If everyone were able to get a house, such limitations wouldn't have been an issue to begin with.

[Sandpark]

@Preypacer
No these questions are the big point. You seem to think FC housing is just for storage and playing decorate. Those things are great for FC and as long as they give others without FC a smaller scale instance of that then it is super. FC housing is proving that it is more than just an art house and storage with the upcoming airship content for FC. Those things you listed from other housing has been done in most mmos, but there hasn't been many mmos that design content out of it.

These systems would not be separate. Huge FC airships are FC only, SE is only offering airships outside to allow people who do not like big FC or can get one to still have access to some content. If you look at it solely as a housing system. Then perhaps those games you listed were more accessible. FFXIV FC housing is more than just your typical housing district with upcoming content tied to the free company housing. Every hypothetical I listed is tied to the housing system.

Has it been perfect so far? No, they had some design overlooks. But as with everything they create, it is iterative not perfect out of the gate.

[Colorful]

snip

Doesn't make the limited supply if it has actual gameplay tied to it? There are also plenty of games that tie "housing" to gameplay aspects, WoW's garrison system ties their version of retainers to it, ArcheAge ties its gathering to it (more in depth gardening pretty much, plays a major part in AA, or at least it did when I played). A Quick google of Wildstar's housing system tells me that you can set up a mine, excavation area, etc, to further improve your ability to gather, a buff board for XP boosts and the like, etc. FFXIV's housing system wasn't perfect out of the game sure, but as of now, a long time after its initial release, it still hasn't been fixed, adding more plots isn't a fix unless you can add enough for 100% of FCs and more for future players.

It isn't just housing, there are a lot of problems they've neglected for a long time and those add up and give you a worse overall experience. Didn't they say they were looking into fixing the Mudra problem? It's been almost 10 months since Ninjas were released, where's that fix? Queuing while our Chocobos are out, again, where's that fix? These are all things that weren't perfect out of the game, and still haven't been fixed. You can't keep using that excuse while these issues pile up. Fix tthe broken systems before piling up more problems into it. It's almost like an Early Access game, where they add new stuff constantly and then don't bother to fix the old stuff.

[Sandpark]

@Colorful
That content from other games came out after FFXIV's housing system. This sounds familiar, other games are taking ideas from FFXIV? I thought WoW was the game others tried to emulate.

Most of XIV's issues are currently due to servers and server tech.Queuing while your chocobo is out is not a broken feature, but they could still make it better. You may not be able to queue with chocobo out currently. But look at everything it let's you do. You don't have to log into different character to do anything in the game, you don't have to go to a room to switch classes or gear or skills, you get a roulette that keeps old content relevant.

Not saying that everything SE does is sunshine and rainbows or that SE shouldn't try and keep most content accessible to the majority. I am just saying this game's housing system as it stands is more than a house and art simulator and yes it does have some issues that need ironed out. FC company houses are guild content. And I think more games should push for more community based content instead of being solo simulators.

[Preypacer]

@Preypacer
No these questions are the big point. You seem to think FC housing is just for storage and playing decorate.

At no point did I say that. I've said quite the opposite throughout my posts, giving examples from other MMOs that have done it well, as a point of comparison for how XIV has done it poorly.

If you're going to respond to my posts, read them first and acknowledge what I say. Don't cherry-pick, or just put words in my mouth. It's incredibly rude, and dishonest.

Boiling it down to the absolute basics, forgetting all the benefits and such of owning one:
Other MMOs have launched housing systems where, upon release, every single character has access to at least one house, without anyone ever having to go without because "the system can't handle it". FFXIV has not even reached this point yet. So, right out of the gate, forgetting everything else, FFXIV is already way behind every other MMO that offers housing of some kind. Hell, on those terms, even FFXI's Mog House system far surpasses XIV's.

Those things are great for FC and as long as they give others without FC a smaller scale instance of that then it is super. FC housing is proving that it is more than just an art house and storage with the upcoming airship content for FC. Those things you listed from other housing has been done in most mmos, but there hasn't been many mmos that design content out of it.

They've been done in other MMOs, and in a way that allowed all players to enjoy them, by making sure housing was available to all characters.

Bringing it back to FFXIV, the benefits of housing is utterly pointless when a large number of players have no way to enjoy them because obtaining a house is out of their reach, for reasons out of their control. This has been the core point of my posts, and this thread which, for some reason, you keep completely ignoring.

XIV's current housing implementation was poorly designed and poorly implemented. This is evident in the fact that threads like this even have to be made. The adjustments being made to it are band-aids to lessen the ill-effects. They're not fixes.

These systems would not be separate. Huge FC airships are FC only, SE is only offering airships outside to allow people who do not like big FC or can get one to still have access to some content. If you look at it solely as a housing system. Then perhaps those games you listed were more accessible. FFXIV FC housing is more than just your typical housing district with upcoming content tied to the free company housing. Every hypothetical I listed is tied to the housing system.

Again, the housing in other MMOs does provide additional gameplay benefits beyond just the housing/storage aspects. I've already described this, and have given examples... which, again, you keep conveniently ignoring. And regardless, all of what you say about XIV's housing is irrelevant if people do not have a way to access it, which is - yet again - the main point here.

Has it been perfect so far? No, they had some design overlooks. But as with everything they create, it is iterative not perfect out of the gate.

You've gone full apologist. Never go full apologist.

"some design overlooks"?

You have quite the knack for understatement.

Iterative? This isn't iterative. This is a fundamentally poorly designed system with band-aids being applied to it.

[Sandpark]

@Preypacer
No these questions are the big point. You seem to think FC housing is just for storage and playing decorate.

At no point did I say that. I've said quite the opposite throughout my posts, giving examples from other MMOs that have done it well, as a point of comparison for how XIV has done it poorly.

If you're going to respond to my posts, read them first and acknowledge what I say. Don't cherry-pick, or just put words in my mouth. It's incredibly rude, and dishonest.
Well, your questions are completely besides the point, and are not at all the big question. More of a deflection from the main point, really.

All of those things being tied to FC housing are great.. if you're fortunate enough to be in a FC that has a house, or are able to get one yourself. But many can't.And that is the key problem here, which some people seem determined to argue around, make excuses for, or otherwise avoid addressing.

Do you not even remember what you write? You said it, clear as day.

Bringing it back to FFXIV, the benefits of housing is utterly pointless when a large number of players have no way to enjoy them because obtaining a house is out of their reach, for reasons out of their control. This has been the core point of my posts, and this thread which, for some reason, you keep completely ignoring.

XIV's current housing implementation was poorly designed and poorly implemented. This is evident in the fact that threads like this even have to be made. The adjustments being made to it are band-aids to lessen the ill-effects. They're not fixes.

Actually you are ignoring the core point of my post. Free Company houses are for guilds and your instanced version is for non free company members which I want as well in addition to Guild houses.

So you have a masters in game design? It is proof of nothing except that people like and hate and post about different things on web forums.

Again, the housing in other MMOs does provide additional gameplay benefits beyond just the housing/storage aspects. I've already described this, and have given examples... which, again, you keep conveniently ignoring. And regardless, all of what you say about XIV's housing is irrelevant if people do not have a way to access it, which is - yet again - the main point here.

Only relevant example I saw you list was mining areas. I guess mining is comparable on scale for building a frigging huge airship, flying off with friends to amazing destinations in the sky? The smaller scale it is, the easier to do it due to lack of risk.

One is meaty content for groups with side casual content, while the other is dress me up barbie in solitude in a house.

[Naunet]

Only relevant example I saw you list was mining areas. I guess mining is comparable on scale for building a frigging huge airship, flying off with friends to amazing destinations in the sky? The smaller scale it is, the easier to do it due to lack of risk.

Gameplay-related elements in WS housing:
- plugs for the three gathering professions
- farm plug to plant seeds and grow plants (everyone can harvest these)
- "challenge FABkits", which are premade set-ups that you can plop down and interact with to complete various kinds of challenges
- "expedition FABkits", which are premade set-ups containing mini-instances that scale with how many people enter. These are awesome, contain cool decor and dyes as rewards, and are a good way for lowbies to farm renown (a currency you get for doing group content that lets you buy a variety of things like costumes, dyes, decor, bags, pets, flasks, and runes).
- zone-based FABkits that, in addition to being designed in the theme of the various zones, also contain portals to the appropriate zone
- different housing items grant various rested XP buffs, which is relevant in WS even at level cap, as XP turns into Elder Gems (an endgame currency) and past the EG cap, XP converts directly to gold
- buff board that lets you pick between increased rewards in questing/hunting, group PvE, or PvP content for a 24h buff

I may have forgotten something.

Basically, FFXIV's housing is not unique. FFXIV's housing is actually subpar. Horrendously subpar.

[Preypacer]

Do you not even remember what you write? You said it, clear as day.

Umm... I think you're confused.

I have no idea what you're trying to prove by quoting those two bits... and I'm not sure you know, either.

Your first quote is you putting words in my mouth. That's your post.. not mine.

The second quote is me pointing out that, yes, you have been deflecting in your replies, and avoiding the main point... which I have now pointed out several times, across multiple posts, and you keep ignoring.

Actually you are ignoring the core point of my post. Free Company houses are for guilds and your instanced version is for non free company members which I want as well in addition to Guild houses.

You're mistaking me for someone else.

I never specifically said they should instance the non-FC housing. That was someone else. My argument has been that they need to go back to the drawing board and re-design the system, because it's utterly inadequate as-is. I've used other MMOs that handled it well, and did it right, as examples they could and, arguably, should have drawn from when designing XIV's.

So you have a masters in game design? It is proof of nothing except that people like and hate and post about different things on web forums.

All of a sudden... out of left field...

Only relevant example I saw you list was mining areas. I guess mining is comparable on scale for building a frigging huge airship, flying off with friends to amazing destinations in the sky? The smaller scale it is, the easier to do it due to lack of risk.

Again, you're confusing me with someone else. I never listed mining as an example.

Seriously... you need to go back and re-read this thread. You don't even know who you're responding to at this point. You're mistaking your own statements with others'.

Meantime, I think this "discussion" is over between you and I.

Good day, sir.