Elder Primal?

[WyrahFhurrst]

Ok, so maybe they aren't all Elder Primals then. Corvinoobus did say they left it broad, so maybe Bismarck is an Elder Primal, though the Vanu Vanu made it sound like his appearance was new.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Ok, so maybe they aren't all Elder Primals then. Corvinoobus did say they left it broad, so maybe Bismarck is an Elder Primal.

Nah. This is more like the confusion that used to exist over Midgardsormr as well. Many of us used to think that he was a primal, because of similar labelling errors in official texts.

As Kaiser-Ace said, an elder primal is simply a primal that's been around for a very, very, very long time. Odin is widely regarded by most Eorzeans as an "elder" primal for that reason.

But things are a little bit different now, with the recent revelations about eikons. And we don't know very much yet about what these entities actually are.

[WyrahFhurrst]

snip

snip

No no, I know that Elder Primals are different based on age. I meant that the idea everyone was exploring in this thread - that Bismarck and Ravana were Elder Primals - wasn't necessarily correct based on Corvinoobus's statement. But Corvin did leave the subject open to that journal section possibly including Elder Primals currently, or in the future.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Ok, so maybe they aren't all Elder Primals then. Corvinoobus did say they left it broad, so maybe Bismarck is an Elder Primal, though the Vanu Vanu made it sound like his appearance was new.

I recall Elder Primal specifically meaning that tge primal has been worshiped for an exceptionally long period of time. Thus why Bahamut is an Elder Primal and Phoenix isn't despite Phoenix over powering Bahamut. So if the Primal has only recently been summoned it's not an Elder.
Though my theory for Eikons is that they, uniquly, dont require a summoner and can, to an extent, summon them selves given the aether and time to aquire it. See Odin Trial CSs for an examples.

[Zeonx]

I have a question about something along these lines.

Is SIN from FF10 a summoned Primal would be be a elder primal if so?


Would SIN ever make it to FFXIV in the future updates or expansions if he is a primal?

[Kaiser-Ace]

I have a question about something along these lines.

Is SIN from FF10 a summoned Primal would be be a elder primal if so?

In a way yes to both.

*FF10 Spoilers*
It turns out SIN is actually an Aeon it's self summoned by Yu Yevon roughly a thousand years prior to the plot. And Yu Yevon possesses The Final Aeon used to kill it in order to resummon sin. The 1st being Lord Zion and final being Sir Jecht.
*End of FF 10 spoilers*

So Aoens could be stated to be a direct parallel to primals in the FF10 world.

[Belhi]

In a way yes to both.

*FF10 Spoilers*
It turns out SIN is actually an Aeon it's self summoned by Yu Yevon roughly a thousand years prior to the plot. And Yu Yevon possesses The Final Aeon used to kill it in order to resummon sin. The 1st being Lord Zion and final being Sir Jecht.
*End of FF 10 spoilers*

So Aoens could be stated to be a direct parallel to primals in the FF10 world.

The real question I had from FF10 was what was Penance? Sadly FF10-2 never touched on it.


On the elder primal thing though, Im wondering if Ramuh is one. Its curious that he talks as if he has been around for a long time and in the SMN quests the explaination on why the attempt to summon an Egi of him is that the play doesn't have a sufficient Aether to sustain an Egi form of a primal that strong. That would make him stronger than Ifrit, Titan and Garuda.

[TinyRedLeaf]

On the elder primal thing though, Im wondering if Ramuh is one. Its curious that he talks as if he has been around for a long time and in the SMN quests the explaination on why the attempt to summon an Egi of him is that the play doesn't have a sufficient Aether to sustain an Egi form of a primal that strong. That would make him stronger than Ifrit, Titan and Garuda.

On face value, Ramuh isn't an elder primal. By that, I mean no one in the game refers to Ramuh as an "elder". I suppose it's because Ramuh is regarded as the god of the sylphs, and they don't seem to predate the Sixth Astral Era. In contrast, Odin has been around since at least the Third Astral Era, some 5,000 years ago.

That said, you won't be the last to wonder how Ramuh could then claim to remember a time before the split between Light and Darkness. Some have suggested that this could merely be the "imprinted" memory derived from the collective prayer of the sylphs. I've also suggested that it could be the primordial memory of the lightning-aspected aether that comprises Ramuh. Frankly, given the lack of hard evidence, anything is possible.

[LaurelinKementari]

I suppose it's because Ramuh is regarded as the god of the sylphs, and they don't seem to predate the Sixth Astral Era.

I wonder what makes you say that? Not saying it isn't true, because there is no evidence for or against it in the game itself, but given how the Sylphs have always been rather secluded to the Black Shroud and man wasn't allowed to reside in it until they made peace with the Elementals, the Sylphs could easily have resided there for millenia without man being any wiser to their existence. (And frankly we do need a Beasttribe that isn't there because "Allagans", or Ascians for that matter.)

[Belhi]

I think until we get a bit of a clearer understanding on the differences between normal primals, elder primals and Eikons are. Eikons clearly display characteristics that other primals don't have such as Odin's apparent ability to operate and exist without any living worshippers.

Currently elder primals seem to just be primals that have been around for a long time. Unless there is some aspect to the age of a Primal effecting its strength this doesn't really necessarily mean an elder primal would be stronger than a normal, recently summoned one. For all we learned about primals recently there is a hell of a lot we still don't know about them.