EC explains how the current progression system is flawed

[Dyvid]

snip

2.XX end game Coil / Savage, EX, Hard Dungeons, CT, varies other content that was added with at level cap. 3.XX end game content is elite dungeons, EX Trials, Alex / Savage, Void Ark, and whatever SE adds that requires level 60. So no, End Game isn't just Alex, just a limit people placed on themselves.

As for Alex loot system, it is a response to the community who complained about random gear drops from Crystal Tower where players had to run it many many times to get the right drop. I believe it's a little better than CT because I have more Alex gear in three weeks than I would have in Crystal Tower. But if you have a better way to remove gating but keep players actively playing without burning through content feel free to post it because I don't. I know without gating progression, people would spam everything in a week then stop playing and start complaining about lack of content. If you make it so mind numbing slow other players would be so overwhelmed they would just stop because they just can't catch up.

SE isn't perfect but almost found a good balance between content patch update and the amount of time it takes to finish personal goals of current content. You can almost set your watch to the "I'm bored" complaint threads on the forums and the release of a new update.

[OJ191]

more than likely what's actually happened is you've been conditioned by your environment to make you THINK that what you're doing in MMOs is fun.

Brainwashing or not

if you're having fun who cares?

[Meya]

Name one MMO out there that doesn't. Hell name one GAME that doesn't create addictive behavior.

Depression Quest, :P can crap game be called a game though..

[Amiaze]

Name one MMO out there that doesn't. Hell name one GAME that doesn't create addictive behavior.

Duke Nukem Forever.

[Hix]

I got to about 1:30 and they started talking about WoW talent tree system. Then I checked the date of the video and saw it was 19 Aug 2015. That was enough info to tell me I didn't need to watch the rest of the video.

[Zfz]

I got to about 1:30 and they started talking about WoW talent tree system. Then I checked the date of the video and saw it was 19 Aug 2015. That was enough info to tell me I didn't need to watch the rest of the video.

When a 2015 book talks about political systems and use the Roman Empire as an example, it is still as relevant as ever. It is talking about an actual example of a talent tree, and the (even though old and no longer in use) WoW talent tree system is one that is very widely known and one that has been experienced by a lot of potential viewers of the video, hence a good candidate to use as an example.

If the video was titled "a sample of current MMORPG progression systems" then your reply is relevant. But that isn't the case.

[CosmicKirby]

Conditioned? You act like there is some brainwashing scheme behind mmo's. Some evil man rubbing his hands together with dollar signs in his eyes. If I wasnt having fun I wouldnt be playing it. Who are you to tell me any different?

Conditioned would be the exact and proper word for it. MMOs are full of skinner box mechanics. We are operantly conditioned to repeat the same basic task, at first for great reward (lots of levels and bright flashes and sound at low levels) and the reward gets progressively slower before becoming a complete uncertainty, (end-game drops that might never drop).

One can call a spade a spade, but you can certainly enjoy the mechanism, especially if you are actually having fun.

[Hix]

When a 2015 book talks about political systems and use the Roman Empire as an example, it is still as relevant as ever. It is talking about an actual example of a talent tree, and the (even though old and no longer in use) WoW talent tree system is one that is very widely known and one that has been experienced by a lot of potential viewers of the video, hence a good candidate to use as an example.

If the video was titled "a sample of current MMORPG progression systems" then your reply is relevant. But that isn't the case.

They definitely talked about WoW talent trees as if they were a thing that still existed. If someone talked about the Roman Empire as a thing that still existed today, then the credibility would be destroyed. And if they actually do know that Talent trees were taken out, but then don't discuss why they were taken out, it'd be similar to saying the Roman Empire is superior to today's republican governments, without discussing why the Roman Empire fell (or even that it fell at all). In either case, they either literally don't know what they are talking about (ie that WoW doesn't use talent trees anymore) or they are hiding highly relevant information (that WoW has decided that talent trees as progression system in an MMO don't really provide customization in the way they are trying to argue).

If the first thing in your argument is just blatantly wrong, then I don't need to read the rest of your argument.

[randysquirrel]

mmmmmmmmmmmm corns

[Zfz]

If the first thing in your argument is just blatantly wrong, then I don't need to read the rest of your argument.

That is applicable only if the argument is a flow of logical deductions. But the topic at hand isn't.

The section where the old WoW talent trees were mentioned, used it to illustrate the case where, and I quote:

if, when you first logged in to World of Warcraft, you were immediately given access to all the abilities in the entire talent tree, you'd feel really overwhelmed. A progression system can be used to introduce elements of the game to the player one by one, allowing them time to familiarize themselves and get comfortable with one facet of the game before moving on to the next thing they need to learn. The best thing about this approach...

You should see now using the Talent 2.0 of WoW, for example, would not be appropriate to illustrate the point that you'd be overwhelmed without a progression system.

The video is not claiming that the old Talent Trees are superior. It wanted a real world example where skipping the progression (giving you everything right at the beginning) would overwhelm you, and WoW's old talent trees was the perfect example.

The WoW old talent trees was used as an example where having some form of progression was better than having none. It made no claims on whether that particular implementation of progression was superior or not.

Hence there's nothing "balantly wrong" by mentioning WoW's old talent trees.