It's Time To Wake up

[Alberel]

There seem to be an awful lot of people in this thread with no idea what skill bloat is...

On my MCH I have three flat damage % cooldowns: Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes and Hawk's Eye. These three all do more or less the same thing and serve the same purpose. That means I am pressing three buttons (usually all at the same time) to do something that could easily be consolidated into one single button. That is skill bloat.

Rouse and Spur for SMNs is also skill bloat: two cooldowns that buff the pet, two cooldowns that do exactly the same thing and are almost always used together at the same time. Why not just combine the effects and give us one button to press?

Some jobs suffer from it far worse than others but skill bloat is a very real problem in this game. The real cause of it though seems to be the cross-class skill system in my opinion.

[SinisterJointss]

There seem to be an awful lot of people in this thread with no idea what skill bloat is...

On my MCH I have three flat damage % cooldowns: Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes and Hawk's Eye. These three all do more or less the same thing and serve the same purpose. That means I am pressing three buttons (usually all at the same time) to do something that could easily be consolidated into one single button. That is skill bloat.

Rouse and Spur for SMNs is also skill bloat

Rouse and Spur are two totally different skills lol (one is for scholar the other is for smn so they CANT be used together) One increases healing potency of your pet the other increases the magic damage. Im sure you can figure out which one goes with which.

On your mch you have BfB ( A lancer skill, Increases damage if cross class by 10% for drg 30%) Raging Strikes (Bard Skill that increases dmg by 20%) and Hawks Eye (Increases Dex 15% and guarantees all attacks land) How is that bloat? Its not. Give me more examples of bloat, I like shooting things down.

At least look at the abilities before you come guessing

Even though there are the typical narsisitic replies of, " YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME" or variations thereof that do nothing to advance the conversation other than assert that the poster is a special snowflake, there are plenty of people that bring up good points and better examples.



This guy gets it. Having multiple flat damage increase skills, multiple direct damage long cd skills (Trick attack is the only one that stands out as a useful utility) is boring. I know people are gonna find one specific example where some skill has a chance to shine, but I am sure many more can think of 99+ other times that its just another redundant skill that takes focus from gameplay to the action bars to watch when abilities are coming off CD.

That is the problem, when looked at individually, they don't seem like a big deal, but when classes have loads of these, it draws attention to the action bars needlessly. This is where addons can remedy some of it to help watch when cds come up, or the developers can realize that this detracts from gameplay and redesign skills to combine with other redundant skills.

There are 2 flat damage increase skills in the game -- Raging Strikes and bfb. Guess which classes have access to BOTH? Brd/Mch -- No other class has access to them both.

The melee's have access to internal release and bfb (two skills that do two different things) Sure they both increase damage in their own way but again, belong to two different jobs.


Also the fact that you say quelling strikes is useless or that nobody uses it just baffles me. Let a blm not use it during their burn ( on grouped trash or a boss, raid or dungeon) and watch them die.

[Daranion]

Joints, you didn't shoot down squat. Stop being so damn arrogant and actually look at the content of what he's saying. All of those abilities do the exact same thing. Do more damage. There is nothing interesting about them. Ignoring Rouse and Spur or whatever that caster stuff is called, they all are just falt damage boosters. Hit a button do 10% more, hit a button do 20% more, hit a button do this much more. WHY? You could just as easily make it a 20% buff on a short CD to replicate having the 3 skills. Just average them all out, They all do the same shit. And don't try and be smug and be all "Oh look at Paladins Fast blade and savage blade, they jsut do damage" Weapon skills usually have combos associiated with them and other roe interesting effects that aren't simple things like take more and do more, do more, and do more via boost of different stat. It's boring boring boring.

[SinisterJointss]

Joints, you didn't shoot down squat. Stop being so damn arrogant and actually look at the content of what he's saying. All of those abilities do the exact same thing. Do more damage. There is nothing interesting about them. Ignoring Rouse and Spur or whatever that caster stuff is called, they all are just falt damage boosters. Hit a button do 10% more, hit a button do 20% more, hit a button do this much more. WHY? You could just as easily make it a 20% buff on a short CD to replicate having the 3 skills. Just average them all out, They all do the same shit. And don't try and be smug and be all "Oh look at Paladins Fast blade and savage blade, they jsut do damage" Weapon skills usually have combos associiated with them and other roe interesting effects that aren't simple things like take more and do more, do more, and do more via boost of different stat. It's boring boring boring.

Only one class has access to all three. So please explain how we have "OMG SO MUCH BLOAT".

I'm not being arrogant, I looked at the content of what he said, and I disagree. If "do more damage" is the deciding factor of what is bloat or not then we are in trouble.

Even though there are the typical narsisitic replies of, " YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME" or variations thereof that do nothing to advance the conversation other than assert that the poster is a special snowflake, there are plenty of people that bring up good points and better examples.

Waiting to read at least one good example of bloat, still haven't. You want bloat? go look at EQ's AA system after 14 years, THAT is bloat.

Apparently someone can't be bothered to read the thread or other posts. There are plenty of skills for you to "shoot down." That being said,

Tell me these skills, I'm waiting for your compelling argument.

You literally describe 3 skills that increase damage, but with slightly different flavor. That is the definition of bloat, but if you can't see that there is no arguing with you, as you are just waiting your turn to spout off nonsense while you stroke your ego in the meantime.

Yes 3 skills, and only ONE job has access to ALL 3 (that would use it as you wont see a blm use hawkeye) Please explain where all this bloat you talk about is at? Tell me the skills, give me your argument because right now this is your ONLY leg to stand on it only ONE job has will use all 3.

That is the problem, when looked at individually, they don't seem like a big deal, but when classes have loads of these, it draws attention to the action bars needlessly. This is where addons can remedy some of it to help watch when cds come up, or the developers can realize that this detracts from gameplay and redesign skills to combine with other redundant skills.

What classes have loads of this bloat.

[Ilenya]

Rouse and Spur are two totally different skills lol (one is for scholar the other is for smn so they CANT be used together) One increases healing potency of your pet the other increases the magic damage. Im sure you can figure out which one goes with which.

My SMN can use both Rouse and Spur. Rouse is an Arcanist skill, not a SCH skill.

[SinisterJointss]

My SMN can use both Rouse and Spur. Rouse is an Arcanist skill, not a SCH skill.

I stand corrected

[Aegrus]

What classes have loads of this bloat.

Oh, Now I get it, you don't have a single class leveled up past 50. Of course you don't see the problems that the new skills cause. So, please, stop licking your own boot and get some experience to bring into the conversation please. This wasn't as much an issue in 2.0, 3.0 and later it will be.

I hate having to bring up character levels, but its largely relevant to the conversation at hand. Please stop trying to ask for me to repeat myself, if you want examples, you can find those in the first page of the thread, and I bring up multiple examples of redundant skills that could/should be merged into others. This is all I have to say to you on this topic, it's not going anywhere as you aren't going to see reason.

[Fendred]

not to mention his insult made 0 sense because the person he quoted wasn't defending anything. Just point out "this thread again".

Because opening the forum, seeing the thread title, and then thinking "oh this thread again" is different than doing all of the above followed by posting an "oh this thread again" comment, which implies he wants to share his annoyance by annoying other people.

[SasukeUchiha81]

Wow, these forums are nerd rage heaven.. Door is that way >>>>>>>>> Do have a pleasant day *hugs* You needed that, you know you did! <3

[LazyC]

On my MCH I have three flat damage % cooldowns: Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes and Hawk's Eye. These three all do more or less the same thing and serve the same purpose. That means I am pressing three buttons (usually all at the same time) to do something that could easily be consolidated into one single button.

Blood for blood is not entirely the same as raging strikes because BfB increases the damage you take as well as dish out, using this at the proper times in incredibly important because if you use it at the wrong time you die. So no its not really the same as the other "press buttons, gain damage" skills.

you cant really merge Bfb with any other skill because of that

and honestly i really don't see where you are coming from , i played GW2 before i ever played FF14 and honestly the fact that GW2 had like what, 10 things to use..like at all, at any given time was very boring, battles were just not really fun in that game