Why do the writers hate Foulques?

[Naunet]

I know this is like... waaaaaay late and all, but my husband and I rerolled and we just got all classes to 30. So we've been working on clearing out the level 30 class and job quests. I got to the LNC one and was once again struck by how... odd it was compared to the others.

Basically I hate this quest. It makes me feel like a horrible person. I dislike that the racism in Gridanian society goes unaddressed as problematic. I dislike that not even once are you allowed to express any sort of sympathy for Foulques's plight. He's not really a bad guy. He mostly treats you with respect, with a couple exceptions, and honestly I totally get how he feels. Even before you learn his backstory, it was pretty clear to me that he was driven to where he is by a society that wants absolutely nothing to do with him. This thought is hammered home by what you see every single time you approach the Lancer's Guild in Gridania: a cowed Duskwight apologizing frantically for some slight while a pair of Wildwood jeer at him.

There are no good feelings in this quest. But what's worse is that the bad feelings are completely ignored, as though SE wants me to believe Foulques really is the Bad Guy. Oh he's so mean! He doesn't like the Lancer's Guild! Oh look he's finally snapped after all this psychological torment and systemic oppression we've put him through! He's a bad guy - you must stop him!

And then the ending...

I feel like the story would have been so much more enjoyable if maybe at the level 10 quest, we instead chose to align with Foulques and thumbed our noses at the Lancer's Guild. The level 15-25 quests then could have been the two of you training out in the wilderness, helping out Ala Mhigan refugees, or a Duskwight camp. Basically, show us the plights of the people! And then the level 30 quest would come along and something BIG would happen, something that Foulques and the PC couldn't handle alone. They find out that the Lancer's Guild is also trying to deal with the problem, and there's a tense interaction where we agree to help each other. It ends with Foulques still leaving but on more neutral terms with the guild. After seeing them help him and the PC, he accepts that they're not completely evil.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

[Ferrasper]

I don't even remember the quests that well which is to show you the meaning of it to me. The only job quests I remember really are the bard and mch ones. BLM too.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

While I haven't done the quest line I can definitely see where you're coming from with this quest line.. A lot of problematic stuff in the story line I feel goes like.. Slightly touched on then never actual put on with depth, all the issues with Ishgard, Gridania's issues, the treatment of the refugees and poor in Ul'dah, the way most of the races of man treat the beastmen (This one I feel gets a bit more of a spotlight sometimes though).

I wish the story line was that sorta deal, it sounds kind of neat though.

[Sylkis]

Could have gone the other way, then we got people who say he is the bad guy he should die etc

But can't have both because the story, dungeons etc are all designed to be linear, treat it as a movie rather than an interactive thing.

[Samcaesar]

the story, dungeons etc are all linear, treat it as a movie rather than an interactive thing

I don't think the OP is asking for an interactive thing, more that the story line went with us siding with Foulques and empathizing with his and the Duskwight's plight in Gridania instead of what did happen in the story.

[Xaenith]

I liked Foulques too and was upset with how this quest went. I felt like they should have pulled a reversal at the last quest or two and had Foulques reveal that the Lancer's guild is a front for organized crime or something. Then the two of you go in and dispatch the corrupt lancers and Foulques leads the new guild after its all said and done. Kind of cliche but it would have been cool. Instead they just kind of have him turn into a raging psychopath and fall off a cliff *spoilers*

[Naunet]

Oh that's also a good idea, Xaenith! I'm glad I'm not alone in this feeling. xD

[Belhi]

A few things.

Firstly, many of the antagonists in FF14 have justifiable arguments for their actions Heavensward is full of them.

One could argue both Nidhogg and the Archbishop were justified in there actions. Humans did cruelly and brutally betray the Dragons and this is after what the Allag did to them. The Archbishop was leading a people effectively damned to endless war due to something they were not responable for themselves.

However, the reasons they have don't excuse their actions. Foulques was wronged but his actions were also in the wrong. He took his anger out on all members of the Lancer's Guild rather than those responsible. Foulques is a tragic tale, something which the leader of the Lancer's Guild indicates. He was wronged. How he dealt with it though was also wrong. Its was a sad tale but sometimes sad tales happen. Lets remember that the Lancer's Guild leadership and members Foulques was wronged by don't seem to be the same as the ones there. Foulques was in jail for some time and after that spent more time obsessing over fearlessness before returning to the Guild. The current Guild Leader was a Wood Wailer till recently.

Also remember while wronged he did steal from the Guild which is what started it all. Add to that he targeted new lancers, not old ones and had contempt for those who didn't share his 'fearlessness'.

Secondly, Foulques failed in understanding one of the core lessons of being a lancer and sadly this is the core reason he ended the way he did. He mistook fearlessness with courage and risked peoples live trying to force this view on others. In the end it showed that his fearlessness wasn't fearlessness but denying his fear and as a result when things went wrong he crumbled.

Thirdly, you have different things at work here. There is xenophobia in Gridania. It is sadly one of the issues the city state has much like corruption in Ul'dah and the lawless underbelly of Limsa. This isn't universal and we see many times this attitude changing over time. The acceptance of Adventurers is a good example. The second point which I'd mention since you brought up the Ala Mhigan refugees is the people of Gridania have serious limits on what they can and cannot do. The reason they don't help the Ala Mhigan refugees isn't from cruelty or xenophobia but that the true owners of the forest, the Elementals, have decided that some of those who come to the twelveswood aren't acceptable to live there. Gridanians have to follow the will of the Elementals There is no choice there.

The Elementals aren't evil. They see the world differently though. The wellbeing of nature is first and foremost and the fact that people are trusted to live in the forest is only because Gridanians are willing to place the wellbeing of nature and the forest as important as their own.

Lastly there is a postmoogle quest which I think shows a alternative situation.

We see a pair of Keepers of the Moon who likewise are discriminated against to the point where one has ended up effectively doomed to live as a bandit due to the path survival took her down. When faced with her sisters despair and the xenophobia and frankly corruption of a group of Wood Wailers she decides there needs to be change. However she sates that she will do it by becoming a Wood Wailer herself and growing strong enough so that she can make sure neither those who her sister are now bound to or those who force her there can continue to do so.

Its an example of how we see someone faced with hardship and discrimination choosing to overcome and make things better rather than just lashing out vengefully.

[Bishop81]

A few things.

Firstly, many of the antagonists in FF14 have justifiable arguments for their actions Heavensward is full of them.

One could argue both Nidhogg and the Archbishop were justified in there actions. Humans did cruelly and brutally betray the Dragons and this is after what the Allag did to them. The Archbishop was leading a people effectively damned to endless war due to something they were not responable for themselves.

Yupe. Those are the best villains.

Even the Garleans ...

They truly believe, at least those lower on the hierarchy, they are doing what is best of the people of Eorzea. A manifest destiny of sorts.

[Eisen-Zorn]

A few things.

Firstly, many of the antagonists in FF14 have justifiable arguments for their actions Heavensward is full of them.

One could argue both Nidhogg and the Archbishop were justified in there actions. Humans did cruelly and brutally betray the Dragons and this is after what the Allag did to them. The Archbishop was leading a people effectively damned to endless war due to something they were not responable for themselves.

However, the reasons they have don't excuse their actions. Foulques was wronged but his actions were also in the wrong. He took his anger out on all members of the Lancer's Guild rather than those responsible. Foulques is a tragic tale, something which the leader of the Lancer's Guild indicates. He was wronged. How he dealt with it though was also wrong. Its was a sad tale but sometimes sad tales happen. Lets remember that the Lancer's Guild leadership and members Foulques was wronged by don't seem to be the same as the ones there. Foulques was in jail for some time and after that spent more time obsessing over fearlessness before returning to the Guild. The current Guild Leader was a Wood Wailer till recently.

Also remember while wronged he did steal from the Guild which is what started it all. Add to that he targeted new lancers, not old ones and had contempt for those who didn't share his 'fearlessness'.

Secondly, Foulques failed in understanding one of the core lessons of being a lancer and sadly this is the core reason he ended the way he did. He mistook fearlessness with courage and risked peoples live trying to force this view on others. In the end it showed that his fearlessness wasn't fearlessness but denying his fear and as a result when things went wrong he crumbled.

Thirdly, you have different things at work here. There is xenophobia in Gridania. It is sadly one of the issues the city state has much like corruption in Ul'dah and the lawless underbelly of Limsa. This isn't universal and we see many times this attitude changing over time. The acceptance of Adventurers is a good example. The second point which I'd mention since you brought up the Ala Mhigan refugees is the people of Gridania have serious limits on what they can and cannot do. The reason they don't help the Ala Mhigan refugees isn't from cruelty or xenophobia but that the true owners of the forest, the Elementals, have decided that some of those who come to the twelveswood aren't acceptable to live there. Gridanians have to follow the will of the Elementals There is no choice there.

The Elementals aren't evil. They see the world differently though. The wellbeing of nature is first and foremost and the fact that people are trusted to live in the forest is only because Gridanians are willing to place the wellbeing of nature and the forest as important as their own.

Lastly there is a postmoogle quest which I think shows a alternative situation.

We see a pair of Keepers of the Moon who likewise are discriminated against to the point where one has ended up effectively doomed to live as a bandit due to the path survival took her down. When faced with her sisters despair and the xenophobia and frankly corruption of a group of Wood Wailers she decides there needs to be change. However she sates that she will do it by becoming a Wood Wailer herself and growing strong enough so that she can make sure neither those who her sister are now bound to or those who force her there can continue to do so.

Its an example of how we see someone faced with hardship and discrimination choosing to overcome and make things better rather than just lashing out vengefully.

Remember, the reasons why Thordan VII was an antagonist was because:

- He was complacent in the lie told throughout generations by Ishgard's Four Houses.
- He sided with The Ascians halfway to further his own ambitions.
- He and his Heavens Ward, were responsible for Harchefaunt's death.
- He became a Primal.

The Archbishop knew that their religion was a complete lie, but, instead of attempting to reach diplomatic solutions with the dragons, Thordan VII wanted the power to destroy. The Archbishop wanted to destroy the Dragons and The Ascians both while placing himself as a God above his people. It's one of those situations where his motives were good on paper, but the devil was in the details.

As for Gridania? The Lancer quests aren't the only quests there rife with racism and bigotry. The White Mage quests, the archer quests, and even the opening cinematic for characters who start in Gridania. You are immediately warned that Gridania is a beautiful, but unwelcoming place. Most story characters in Gridania go out of their way to constantly remind you that you don't belong there, and they really like reminding you that you're not one of them.