Enough is enough

[Adrasteia]

My honest question is...do PLDs really think SE is going to buff us without taking something away after all SE has been saying about PLD being the defense tank ?

But they aren't the defense tank. WAR/DRK can easily match their defensive capabilities (with the single exception of Hallowed Ground), and even exceed them in certain regards (tankbusters especially, unless you're able to hold on to Sentinel/Rampart to mitigate them). That's the key thing that people are complaining about: ignoring the issue of more defense eventually becoming superfluous, it'd be one thing if PLDs really were the premier defensive tank that easily outmatched the others in durability in compensation for lower damage, but it's quite another when they frankly don't even have that as a card to play.

My current preference would be for them to roughly equalize the defensive levels of the tanks, and then focus on giving them specific niches beyond that which helps to differentiate them.

[Noira]

I am talking about their TANKING style.

Everyone also seems to forget:

PLD isn't just a SELF defense tank, PLD also brings party support and defense.

People can argue this all day all they want. it doesn't matter if you don't find the abilities useful or not they are there:

Divine Veil, Cover, Stoneskin, Clemency.

War nor DRK have any party defense related abilities. most of them are niche yeah but they are there and can be pretty good if you use them correctly.

PLD will probably never get a offensive dps side buff to bring them up to war or drk due to above. The shield, on top of HG on top of party related abilities is what keeps them from having offensive buffs.

That's how SE sees it. It sucks yeah but eh.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

My honest question is...do PLDs really think SE is going to buff us without taking something away after all SE has been saying about PLD being the defense tank ?

Something has to be nerfed.

Pointing to War isn't an argument SE sees War as an Offensive Tank and PLD a Defense Tank, so if you want that dps increase something has to get nerfed.

You are absolutely right all these plds fail to realise if they want to gain something they got to lose something.

[RecklessLion]

I am talking about their TANKING style.

Everyone also seems to forget:

PLD isn't just a SELF defense tank, PLD also brings party support and defense.

PLD will probably never get a offensive dps side buff to bring them up to war or drk due to above. The shield, on top of HG on top of party related abilities is what keeps them from having offensive buffs.

That's how SE sees it. It sucks yeah but eh.

I like how you word this. People ignoring the style of play just to be like everyone else. SE should not give PLD dps buff. The best defensive tanks as well as support with dps will make it an OP class for game play sake. Warriors are offensive but that doesn't help team beside flexing muscles same with DRK from what I see. Square know this, it seems like PLD are bad only because content now are blinding what PLD truly do.

[Brian_]

DRK and WAR both provide better party support than PLD right now.

DRK brings the Delirium which in turn lets you drop MNK for NIN. So, because of that, you gain an overall increase in raid DPS and NIN utility. That's a bigger deal than anything PLD brings to the table.

WAR brings Storm's Path and Storm's Eye. Again, two party support abilities that crap all over PLD utility.

I think most PLDs would also be fine without a DPS increase if you gave them real party support rather than situational niche abilities and defense that actually matters -- so enough defense to actually allow healers to DPS more to make up for the tank DPS loss.

[RecklessLion]

Hmm storm path and eye all of a sudden are great support skill....... Ok new question why did PLD win MT of the year award for the last few patches if it was this bad or not as good? It feels like to me after all these years of playing the secret of warrior finally been unlocked.......which is do more damage

[Wizhard]

Hmm storm path and eye all of a sudden are great support skill....... Ok new question why did PLD win MT of the year award for the last few patches if it was this bad or not as good? It feels like to me after all these years of playing the secret of warrior finally been unlocked.......which is do more damage

Current raid content in 3.0 has little need for that increased tank mitigation. It does however has a need for more damage and increased raid mitigation.

[Brian_]

Hmm storm path and eye all of a sudden are great support skill....... Ok new question why did PLD win MT of the year award for the last few patches if it was this bad or not as good? It feels like to me after all these years of playing the secret of warrior finally been unlocked.......which is do more damage

Are you really that oblivious to end-game content? Path and Eye are not all of a sudden great support. THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN AMAZING. Anyone who did end-game in 2.X knows this to be true.

In 2.X, there were 2 tanks. If you brought 2 PLDs or 2 WARs, you suffered an LB penalty. It kind of makes sense to bring one of each. TBH WAR or PLD were both fine MTs.

Their DPS was better than a WAR's in Sword Oath. It isn't anymore.

Enmity was not an issue because all they did was spam RoH. Not the case in HW anymore so their overall enmity generation has dropped by A LOT.

TP issues not nearly as bad because you could weave in Shield Swipes at no DPS loss to tide you over until the entire group needed a BRD to sing. Now Shield Swipe is a DPS loss because of the new combos PLD got.

You could block a lot of meaningful damage in Coil. This includes but is not limited to Critical Rip, Revelation, Death Sentence, Flatten, etc. What can you block in AS? Auto attacks. Great.

Hallowed Ground allowed you to bypass mechanics in Coil. OT hit by Vulnerability before a WC and Holmgang is down? Tempered Will + HG. Something went wrong with lag or whatnot with T12 Brand pass? HG. Something went wrong with Revelation tank swap? HG. Akh Morn? HG. In AS, it's just another defensive CD you use. You would think it still might bypass mechanics like extending the enrage on Faust but nope, he kills you straight through it.

Of their new skills, Sheltron has issues with relevancy (refer back to part about block in current content). Clemency is unusable. That leaves GB and RA which have created issues of their own with enmity generation. Divine Veil is good but clunky because it requires an activator.

All in all, PLD has gained very little with HW and lost a lot.

[RecklessLion]

Current raid content in 3.0 has little need for that increased tank mitigation. It does however has a need for more damage and increased raid mitigation.

So nothing is wrong with PLD then. I mean if we're upset about content leaning towards damage how do think main Warrior players felt?

[RecklessLion]

Hmm for some odd reason last patches MT was PLD for days. And people said path and eye lean more towards the tank since fewer classes actually benefits from path. Eye benefited the warrior or the MT. Again PLD were tanks of the year for years. Now a new tank pops up PLD have x amount of issues. Something not adding up besides the content not gearing towards true tanking.