Captain Knockback

[seekified]

So I was just reading something hilarious in reddit about being THAT GUY, the only one that really made me wonder is the one about the dude who knocks everything back whenever the skill is off CD.

I play MCH a lot these days, and my approach to Blank is to wait until tank has aggro on a pack, pick the thing that's not the primary target, Blank it and bind it. Tank takes less damage, healer can DPS more and by the time our primary target is dead the bind wears off and the mob rejoins the pack. Everyone's happy, right?

Chime in, people. I don't want to be that guy annoying all the tanks and melees.

[Naryoril]

Any AoE will miss that target, be it damage or aggro skills. In case of aggro skills this (in connection with not being able to do single target AoE skills) can mean that by the time the mob comes back the healer is the one with the aggro.

On top of that, what is the primary target? Most tanks don't mark nowadays and you might annoy the melee who is attacking that mob at the moment (i hate it when someone knocks the mob back i'm attacking when i'm on monk or paladin)

[Egnasya]

Your AE heavy classes won't be pleased, no.

Generally my take on such abilities is, don't use them in group content unless it's obvious that things will go horribly wrong otherwise. These are fine abilities that have a lot of use in PvP and solo gameplay. In groups they have niche utility at best. You want your tank to handle mobs freely as possible without anyone chiming in; if the tank drops too heavily this is either his own fault for taking too many mobs or not handling defensives correctly, or the healer's for not paying attention. DPS players contribute by killing stuff fast, and not by controling mobs themseves.

And yes I know there is a damage component to these abilities; frankly I have no clue why it is there at all. It only serves to confuse people into thinking they have to use them as off-GCD DPS abilities rather than for crowd control. Do not fall for such things. Believe me, the damage coming from other players you destroy by knocking that mob away far exceeds the bit you gain for yourself.

[Aralyne]

When levelling my machinist, I never use blank outside of solo grinding/killing stuff because I know how annoying it can be when I'm playing a close range dps and someone uses a knock back ability causing my target to fly a gazillion yalms back - thus screwing up my rotation and making me have to run after it to get back into attacking range :P

[seekified]

I honestly did not consider the AoE aspect too much - good point. I don't think of Blank as a means of doing damage, I was just happy to see some form of crowd control on a job for once and though of a somewhat meaningful way of using it to help. Perhaps not, then.

As for what is the primary target, I'm fairly good at watching other players while I do my thing, so I'll open with the usual attacks while watching DPS positioning, who's facing what and the HP bar of the mobs. Within a GCD or so it's pretty clear what's not being actively attacked (at least with a melee as second DPS) and that's the one I'll Blank.

EDIT: To clarify, I've been a DRG main since closed beta and know all to well how annoying it is to see your target fly off. My blanking thus far has been strictly for the mob that nobody is directly hitting.

[Cynfael]

I play MCH a lot these days, and my approach to Blank is to wait until tank has aggro on a pack, pick the thing that's not the primary target, Blank it and bind it. Tank takes less damage, healer can DPS more and by the time our primary target is dead the bind wears off and the mob rejoins the pack. Everyone's happy, right?

Chime in, people. I don't want to be that guy annoying all the tanks and melees.

Please do not do this. I die a little inside whenever I see that I have a MCH in a dungeon roulette since at least half of them seem to do this.

Tanks don't want it, healers don't want it, and DPS roles do not want it.

[Nyalia]

As a PLD main, I hate it when people use knockback skills or don't put their Garuda on Obey. It really messes with my ability to keep aggro off the healers, even in low level content. In high level content, AoE is king and knockback messes with that too. Also, personally, I'm one of those tanks who rotates targets to build enmity on all of them at once, so I'll split my combos between them as I go. Not only does that let me keep aggro well off the healers, it lets me put my damage mitigation move (strength down for 20 seconds) on all enemies. Also, by building up extra enmity on the non-main target when there is a main target, when the main target dies, I have enough aggro on the rest that I can switch to my MP-restoring move (and DPS moves if 52+) to get ready for the next pull.

In my personal opinion, the only times to use a knockback move are:

• The tank lost aggro and the enemy moved far enough away and in the right direction that, if you knockback, it'll push the enemy right back next to the tank where she can re-establish aggro without having to move. If the tank has already started moving toward you, do not do this! You'll overshoot and its annoying.
• An enemy is ranged and won't move, and you are lined up perfectly to push the ranged enemy to the tank (it was extremely nice in the old DD first room farms with those two ranged enemies that were hard to move even with LoS tricks). Or, similarly, when an enemy needs to be somewhere specific and it isn't there and you are lined up just right to push them there.
• An enemy is already against a wall and positioned such that a knockback move will not move it.
• An enemy needs to be interrupted and you're rather sure the tank won't be able to do it in time and no one else has a stun. There are also some stun-immune enemies that are not knockback-immune and can be interrupted via knockback, but I'm not exactly sure which.
• You are fighting a knockback-immune enemy, such as the majority of bosses.
• PvP.

Any other time, knockback can be incredibly annoying to tanks and melee and can result in the healer dying, especially if the tank fails to notice that her AoE threat generators are no longer hitting one of the enemies.

[Lollie]

From a novice tankng perspective I dont mind the knock back if, the group isnt aoe killing, and it is not the mob currently with the lowest health. This generally avoids the missed dmg and after 3-4 hate grabs i find it is rare to lose hate within the 15 seconds or so it wil be away from the pack.

Do not use it as a finisher, the target ring stays on the mob till it stops moving, and will screw the expected tab target order. (Yes there are ways around this targeting issue, but generally you dont know what targeting method is being used so just don't risk it)

[seekified]

Duly noted! Thanks for your input everyone, I'll hold off on the blanks.

@Nyalia - Excellent summary. I play WAR a fair bit too but I've just kinda dealt with knockbacks as and when they happen without thinking too much into it.

[Neophyte]

I'll use those actions (garuda-egi knockback) only when getting hate, shooting it back to and not away from the tank.
Or when a tank dont stack all mobs on the only ranged mob (maybe cant break LoS).. Sometimes i DoT first, shoot him into the group and Bane then.

Feels like you did some great COMBO-action.