Are we really getting a Dps parsing dummy?

[rappa]

Expecting everyone to download third party programs just to be on-par with other players? Do you not see an issue with that?

Yes, it shows you exactly how much damage you can do and how to macro and push your skills to their limits. It lets you also see incoming and outgoing damage done to you and how much you have healed. It helps you do a lot of things, it shows you when you got hit by that big bosses aoe and how long in the fight it took.

A parser is information, information is knowledge, knowledge provides improvement.

Some players are afraid to discover to spam heavy shot, 1-2-3 combo or using ice spells are not worth it as they think.

[CGMidlander]

That's as maybe, but they're still third party software that's still against the ToS. And here's hoping they stay that way.

They're against the ToS because allowing 3rd party programs (which are not developed by SE, so they have no control over what goes into them) would mean opening up a lot of loopholes for abuse -- not because using them is inherently bad.

That's why YoshiP didn't flat out say "No, they're bad"
https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=6m1s

[Tagihi]

i absolutely love parsing for my own sake!
its good tool for me to improve myself on the bosses and their mechanics.

[Erim-Nelhah]

(long post, scroll to the bottom if you only want my opinion on a dummy parser)

Yes, they really are worthless.

I disagree with this. Knowing how much damage you're dealing over the course of a fight is extremely useful, as is knowing how much damage you're doing during specific phases (such as chitin or snakes on Bismarck Extreme).

Showing you how you did at the END of the fight? Now that's useful. Potentially. Except Parsers don't account for boss mechanics. They do not account for people performing specific roles or attending to certain mechanics.

No, Parsers don't account for mechanics. Accounting for mechanics is up to the person using the parser. That person saw how the fight played out, and should have knowledge if someone was doing low DPS due to having to perform mechanics or if it was just because his/her rotation was off.

According to the 'Guides' and those who mathed it all out, my Bard should never have gotten its Bismark EX clear. According to the parses, our global DPS was several hundred lower than it should have been to clear the fight.
But we cleared it, easily.
Why? Because the parser just divides your total damage done by the time taken to end the encounter. During the phases that are time sensitive, our damage output was totally fine.
...

The guides are wrong, as are the people who might tell you that your MCH DPS on A4 is too low, but that's beside the point - a good parser can actually show you how much damage you were doing during each phase of a Bismarck EX encounter. You can look up the incoming damage, by player, on each of the Chitin, and the Snakes, and see who was doing how much and to what, and figure out total DPS from that.

You can cry and moan all you like about how parsers allow you to attain perfection, but the truth of the matter is that you do not need a parser to play your job to the best of its ability.
Just because a parser exists does not guarantee people will use the information to improve.
Conversely, Just because you don't have a parser doesn't prevent you from improving.

Can you honestly say that a parser can't help you improve? It's true that not everyone will use parsers for that, and it's also true that you can improve without one, but wouldn't having one make things easier?

Kicking someone on day one of content for not playing their class well enough to clear the content is basically like going to a new job and being let go day one because you may not have yet understood everything that must be done in order to fulfill the workday. This damages the overall health of the community and furthers the glaring aspect of segregation that plagues this game.

Kicking someone for not doing enough DPS on Day 1 content can be like this (ie Bard doing 550 dps on Bis EX day 1 and getting kicked because 550 < 600), or it can be more like someone showing up to do a job but not even knowing the basics required to perform the task at hand (ie, bard doing 300-350 DPS on Day one, which tells me that they probably haven't even taken the time to try out a few rotations on a dummy).

As a Bard when they added WM to our skills I didn't know how to really use it well because the game didn't offer me any training on it. I was pulling low numbers because of it, it wasn't until I reached out to a friend who was a bit more further into the story and more in tune with the class that I was able to see how to use it right. A parser wouldn't have done anything in this situation because like I pointed out they don't truly encourage grown.

A parser might have been able to tell you that you needed to talk to a better bard about how to properly use WM sooner. No, it won't directly help you to play your class, but it will tell you if what you're doing is good or bad, and if a change you make to your rotation is better or worse than before.

So kicking someone because they're new and not as experienced at content as you or I and kicking someone who may truly not have a full conceptual grasp of his or her skills is honestly about the same.

If you don't have a good conceptual grasp of your skills, I don't want you in any kind of real "hard" content (Extreme Primals, Savage Raids). I'm unlikely to care in casual content unless we're wiping due to low dps - which, despite all the threads about it on the forums, is actually fairly rare in-game.

It also might assist your account to a permaban. :'3

Banned people do 0 dps.

The reddit post you quote later is the only case I've seen of someone even potentially facing a permban because he/she was using a parser, and I bet that he/she either pissed off someone in his/her linkshell enough to get them to report about it, or raged about low DPS in a DF group, with or without mentioning numbers/parsing, and got reported for it. Stop spreading that fud. As for parsers enabling people to automate their abilities...since when? I'm aware that there are programs out there that can help do that, and that can show you when a boss is about to use a certain ability, but those programs are not parsers. Even if a program that has a parser were to include such a tool, it would be separate from the parser and would have to be set up separately before it could be used. Don't confuse parsers with other 3rd-party utilities.

All that aside, having a dummy parser is better than nothing, and will help people who want to improve to improve. Will these dummies also be used as a type of "proving grounds" for DPS, particularly for statics wanting to recruit for endgame? Probably. Is that a bad thing? I personally don't think so. It's up to a raid/static organizer/leader to set the bar for what's acceptable in his/her group. If that he/she sets the bar too high, he/she is gonna have trouble finding members.

--Erim Nelhah

[SockPoo]

What are people so scared of? Getting kicked from parties? Getting called out? Honestly if people want to parse they already are. And if you're butting heads with those people then stop playing with them; problem solved. Are they harassing you? Black list and report.

If you have a problem with parsing don't use it and ignore anyone else who does. However don't act like measuring your output is somehow a bad thing. What do you think about people who want to know how fast their serves are in tennis, or how fast their pitches are in baseball? This game can be played at any level, and sometimes certain tools are very useful for becoming the best player you can be.

[ShaneDawn]

Any dps worth their salt would never macro attack skills, since it results in a dps loss. You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

What is thiiiiis. Did he really think all people who parse macro their openers and comboes. I wonder where he got this misinformation, but using a macro to chain your skills really is a dps loss and no competent player does it.

I'm going to say what I've kept saying for a long time. Parsers are only as bad as the people using them. It's a common misconception thinking that people using the parsers suddenly turn into evil megalomaniacs that will bash you for sub-par dps. No, they won't, most people will not care for sub-par dps, as long as the instance is getting cleared. There will always be bad eggs, but parsers are generally used for self/raid evaluation, not to stroke e-peens at you. I hope you at least rid yourself of the delusions that people use parsers to macro their whole skill bars Nektulos.

People often confuse with others trying to help them out for bashing in the first place. Someone asking you "are you comfortable fighting this phase? somehow your dps seems to go pretty low" is not necessarily bashing you. There have been sooo many times when I have tried to help out someone who seems to be struggling with the fight, in a polite manner, only to get backlashed by a vicious retaliation and a snappy remark that "they know what they're doing dumbass" or "I play how I want". Sure, that's all fine and good, but booting people out from parties if it's that attitude that keeps the party back is acceptable as well right?

As usual, I think the problem is on the extremes of both sides. There's a select few using the parsers to openly bash people that give them a bad name. But then there's a group of "I play how I want" people, who would be happy to get carried through every fight and calling people elitists is a regular occasion for them. Both sides suck, but you guys should take the foil hats away and really think about whether the parsers are an actual issue. Harassment is a bannable offense in the game, and that includes bashing someone needlessly for their dps. Pointing out that someone is lagging from the expected numbers in a fight that requires it, is not, unless you are a dick about it. People in this game are just often too thick to take any kind of critique, not even the good kind. But I personally think that those people should not be clearing any party-oriented challenges anyways.

While I agree that party-wide parsing can encourage those select few to look down on others, I still think that a personal parser is the way to go. That way you can evaluate your personal progress on all individual fights without fearing needless harassment from others. Parsing higher on average now than yesterday? Alright, I'm doing something better today! Maybe I should change my cooldown rotation for this fight? Maybe it's an overall dps increase.

[Ashkendor]

It's a common misconception thinking that people using the parsers suddenly turn into evil megalomaniacs that will bash you for sub-par dps.

I keep trying to tell people that a parser is a tool, nothing more. Using a parser doesn't suddenly make you mean or stupid. Mean and stupid people just have the same access to parsers that the rest of us do. I wonder how many dungeons any one of us has run in a day with someone that was parsing but just didn't say a thing about it.

[Mature]

All that aside, having a dummy parser is better than nothing, and will help people who want to improve to improve. Will these dummies also be used as a type of "proving grounds" for DPS, particularly for statics wanting to recruit for endgame? Probably. Is that a bad thing? I personally don't think so. It's up to a raid/static organizer/leader to set the bar for what's acceptable in his/her group. If that he/she sets the bar too high, he/she is gonna have trouble finding members.

--Erim Nelhah

What a great way to put it out there.thank you for this fantastic input. 0/ fully agree with this (and the rest but can't quote the whole thing due to limit characters)

[Stupiduglytaru]

Think of all the endgame ps4 players out their, there's no option for parser data during fights short of someone telling you.

Seeing the data first hand is vital, short of someone with a parser running that content with you 100times you won't be able to see the improvement

Dummy parsing is a step in the right direction, at least you can practice your rotation and tweak here and there, I found myself that I lost 70 dps with some of the things I did in fights, i saw big numbers when i did these things but overall it hurt my dps...

Without my second account running one i would have never known

[Kaurie]

Kicking someone on day one of content for not playing their class well enough to clear the content is basically like going to a new job and being let go day one because you may not have yet understood everything that must be done in order to fulfill the workday. This damages the overall health of the community and furthers the glaring aspect of segregation that plagues this game.

Somehow I missed this post until now?

Anyway, I don't think anyone gets kicked for being slightly below the capable requirement. However, if they are well below what they should be, then yes. This is like starting an office job and having a typing speed of 10, or starting a sales job but can't talk to people in public settings. If you're just not cut out for it, you're let go. It happens all the time.

Not having a parser is like not having a way to track metrics at your job. I have yet to be in a job that doesn't track metrics. Have you?