Why not just make everyone a DPS?

[Kallera]

The point of the topic was not to seriously suggest changing everyone into a dps. The topic was highlighting the flaw in the class design in this game where in this game tank do no in fact try to reduce damage. They gear for full dps and tank in dps stances and just use a cooldown when a scripted large attack is incoming. SE has made no attempt to make actual tank stats and no attempt to have tanks actively trying to reduce incoming damage.

I think the limited relevance of stat increases is the biggest problem. Parry and SS are in this limbo of usefullness where they do not improve reasonably and SE tailors fights specifically to screw with the idea of raising the stat(with more magical attacks, why parry, when vitprotects against everything and str saves you faster?). Piety and vitality receive a similar treatment when all the skill points available amount to only a pittance of difference at 60 against lvl60 mobs with lvl 60 skill costs.

Its as if improving stats outside of the tomestone blues is a noob trap.

[Yorumi]

Its as if improving stats outside of the tomestone blues is a noob trap.

It's mostly lazy stat design. I mentioned already in this thread how we have elemental resist, parry, vit and all are useless. SE didn't bother to really diversify the stats at all. Replace str,dex,int,mnd with just a stat called damage, if you did that everyone's gear would look almost 100% identical. There arn't healing stats or tank stats in this game, just dps stats.

[Phoenicia]

It's mostly lazy stat design. I mentioned already in this thread how we have elemental resist, parry, vit and all are useless. SE didn't bother to really diversify the stats at all. Replace str,dex,int,mnd with just a stat called damage, if you did that everyone's gear would look almost 100% identical. There arn't healing stats or tank stats in this game, just dps stats.

Merging STR, DEX, INT and MND into 1 stat wouldn't a problem. TERA for example had normalized stats. EVERYONE (tanks, healers, melee, ranged and caster DPS) used "Power" as a main stat and Endurance for defense. Yet that game managed to make diversity sought after and different builds for the same classes existed. Warriors liked a variety of attack speed and power or crit focus, while Slayers favored speed to a lesser extent and focused more on crit. Berserkers wanted power and crit. This is along with other stats like increased enmity %, increased healing done %, increased healing received %, knockdown resistance, MP/HP regen or whatever other stats existed in that game. Stats weren't linear and had caps to how much you can have. And each stat benefited different classes differently.

This game has no variety as there is only 1 mathematically optimal build which happens to be the same on all classes. Weapon Damage > Main Stat > Crit > Determination > Speed. So you end up with everyone, whether they're DPS, tanks or healers, going for the exact same stat builds. Stats are also linear with no caps or diminishing returns, so you just go for the maximum mix of all of them. This is where this game mainly fails. This problem is even worse when you have healers and tanks benefiting MORE for having DPS stats. There is no healer stat that healers would want since the same DPS stats affect heals. There is no tank-specific stats (outside of parry) that affect tanking. Tanks aggro issues are solved with DPS stats. Tanks survivability even benefits more with more DPS stats. Remember when STR increased Parry and Block values? Heck, all three tanks heal themselves far more by having more DPS stats.

[Yorumi]

This problem is even worse when you have healers and tanks benefiting MORE for having DPS stats. There is no healer stat that healers would want since the same DPS stats affect heals. There is no tank-specific stats (outside of parry) that affect tanking. Tanks aggro issues are solved with DPS stats. Tanks survivability even benefits more with more DPS stats. Remember when STR increased Parry and Block values? Heck, all three tanks heal themselves far more by having more DPS stats.

That's exactly my point the devs just gave everyone the same stats and called it a day.

[Risvertasashi]

This game has no variety as there is only 1 mathematically optimal build which happens to be the same on all classes. Weapon Damage > Main Stat > Crit > Determination > Speed. So you end up with everyone, whether they're DPS, tanks or healers, going for the exact same stat builds. Stats are also linear with no caps or diminishing returns

There is so much wrong with this. Crit has diminishing returns and isn't the most optimal off stat for all jobs.

I don't disagree with the general spirit of your post but do be careful with the facts you lay down.

force crits benefit far more

For guaranteed crits, jobs actually benefit less from the crit stat and more from det (since det raises the damage from the guaranteed crit). Now there's some debate about whether det is actually worth it but it is an argument that some MNKs (for example) make.

There is no actual diminishing return as in each point of crit gives exactly the same % of crit chance, this doesn't change no matter how high you go in crit. The stat value doesn't change and each point is as good as the previous one. Crit is as linear as any other stat in this game.

I was about to say this isn't consistent with data I've seen but it seems the theorycrafting subreddit has disappeared O.o Well... guess I'll just wait until the Heavensward numbers are in a verify if crit diminishes or not.

[Izsha]

Yeah 3.0 stat adjustments have really flipped the stat weights around. They are all much closer and vary based on specific jobs now from what I've seen if the new estimated numbers. Crit no longer heavily affects rate at all. It's primary boost is in upping crit damage, so jobs woth higher native crit rates and force crits benefit far more, while low rate jobs it's really terrible (note to scholars). SS got a nice nudge up in value and the dot change. Det got nerfed to be less all powerful etc. The dynamics of secondaries is all wonky now vs 2.x. forget what you knew about stats in 2.x. it's outta date info.

[Reynhart]

Merging STR, DEX, INT and MND into 1 stat wouldn't a problem.

Agree for STR and DEX, but not for INT and MND other since several jobs can use healing and attacking spells in their toolkit.

[Iagainsti]

You mean for the fact of standing there doing nothing but provoke every 30s and WS every minute or so? lol

Lol yep^^ 5 buttons really; refreshing my utsusemi's was the only brainwork... Oh wait! My 3min CD and War cry when I WAS TOLD to pop it when the DD were ready for skill chains.

[repoe]

Yeah 3.0 stat adjustments have really flipped the stat weights around. They are all much closer and vary based on specific jobs now from what I've seen if the new estimated numbers. Crit no longer heavily affects rate at all. It's primary boost is in upping crit damage, so jobs woth higher native crit rates and force crits benefit far more, while low rate jobs it's really terrible (note to scholars). SS got a nice nudge up in value and the dot change. Det got nerfed to be less all powerful etc. The dynamics of secondaries is all wonky now vs 2.x. forget what you knew about stats in 2.x. it's outta date info.

Crit affects rate as well as critical damage as of 3.0
Pre expansion it only affected the rate

[Phoenicia]

There is so much wrong with this. Crit has diminishing returns and isn't the most optimal off stat for all jobs.

I don't disagree with the general spirit of your post but do be careful with the facts you lay down.

There is no actual diminishing return as in each point of crit gives exactly the same % of crit chance, this doesn't change no matter how high you go in crit. The stat value doesn't change and each point is as good as the previous one. Crit is as linear as any other stat in this game.

The "diminishing return" people talk about is due to forced crits from things like Bootshine/Life Surge and crit buffs like Internal Release and Abandon, etc. This affects crit stat weight, not crit's % chance per point.