Why not just make everyone a DPS?

[Reynhart]

But here's the real rub, if you start making tank mitigation super important (even though it is still being checked), WARs will simply take the place of PLDs on the sidelines.

You make both mechanics at the same time.

Let's imagine a big boss who create parts of him. Each time one part is killed, he loses a 10% of its life, and you need one tank for the main body and one for the part.
You could have any tank on the main body focused on surviving high damaging moves (So, any tank with high VIT, but "mostly" PLD or DRK, since damage is less relevant), and one tank on the spare part focused on dishing out damage (So, any tank with high STR but mostly WAR since surviving is less relevant)

You could even alter the main target to switch periodically to either physical or magical busters, thus each tank will have its strong and weak points in the long run, and the spare part to switch between physical and magical resistance so that you want to mix your DPS.
For an additionnal mechanic, you could make the body to keep only one type of busters (physical or magical) when it hits 50% HP, thus managing your timing so that the final from better suits the main tank you have.

[RapBreon]

You make both mechanics at the same time.

Let's imagine a big boss who create parts of him. Each time one part is killed, he loses a 10% of its life, and you need one tank for the main body and one for the part.
You could have any tank on the main body focused on surviving high damaging moves (So, any tank with high VIT, but "mostly" PLD or DRK, since damage is less relevant), and one tank on the spare part focused on dishing out damage (So, any tank with high STR but mostly WAR since surviving is less relevant)

You could even alter the main target to switch periodically to either physical or magical busters, thus each tank will have its strong and weak points in the long run, and the spare part to take reduced damage from physical or magical so that mixing DPSes will be more efficient.
For an additionnal mechanic, you could make the body to stay in one form (physical or magical) when it hits 50% HP, thus managing your timing so that the final from better suits the main tank you have.

You can do this kind of stuff. And MMOs do. But it's a gimmick, you can't fill an entire tier with it. One boss a tier does not make. It's a good idea though, don't get me wrong.

And in the current FF:HW climate it wouldn't work as is. If the current level of DPS checks were transplanted to your hypothetical, you'd still want a tank who does more damage. Build aggro on head, switch to limbs to help DPS.

Your problem is with the tightness of the checks. As I have said, it is binary. Progression through difficult bosses (mathematically speaking) close to release has always been about squeezing DPS to the maximum (single heal Garrosh world first anyone? What a god).

[Reynhart]

Build aggro on head, switch to limbs to help DPS.

Not if you need to keep the part and head away from each other.

That's just an idea I had after 5 minutes, I'm pretty sure a full team of experienced developers can create a lot of bosses with these kind of mechanics

You could also make time kills where the main target has to die around the same time as the last lesser target of a long train. So, killing the main target the fastest is irrelevant.

[Gameplayzero]

I don't get the complaints. The simple answer is that if you are feeling pressured is to just find a group that you can be yourself and go all Vit. It seems that the only time you'd REALLY need to stance dance is during end game, and thats optional. My answer won't change the meta, but for right now its the best thing you have.

Personally I find it way more exciting finding the fine line between "life and death" while also contributing to the team with better damage output. Its more thought provoking and has more thrill. Regular tanking is popping up cooldowns, keeping aggro, and staying alive. DPS tanking is the same, but you are in a more fragile state and are doing more damage. There is hardly any difference. You still have aggro to worry about, and you have to worry more about cooldowns now that you are out of your tanking stance. Its more tanking then actual tanking lol. Your damage also can contribute to your tanking (especially warrior) so thats another plus. This also makes it more exciting/thrilling for healers since they have more healing to do (as long as the tank knows how to properly stance dance and the healer wants the challenge). If your tank is hardly taking any damage then they'll get bored and dps. I don't play healer, but I highly doubt that healer dps will be as fun as tanking dps/rotations :P. Correct me if i'm wrong though.

i'm just happy that they gave us the option to be both.

[Yorumi]

for Apocatastasis on A1 simple because your tanks can't survive the tank buster that now does double the damage it does now.

I think another part of the problem is the total reliance on tank busters and scripted fights. When pretty much all the damage in any fight except the known tank busters is considered fluff damage that regen takes care of I think there's something pretty wrong with the fight design. If the damage was more consistent you'd have a more organic fight.

The biggest problem honestly is that the content is just so lazily designed. Dps is the only thing checked, there's no real mitigation stat in the game, fights are 100% scripted so it's just a game simon says, mitigation is 90% passive etc.

[RapBreon]

I think another part of the problem is the total reliance on tank busters and scripted fights. When pretty much all the damage in any fight except the known tank busters is considered fluff damage that regen takes care of I think there's something pretty wrong with the fight design. If the damage was more consistent you'd have a more organic fight.

The biggest problem honestly is that the content is just so lazily designed. Dps is the only thing checked, there's no real mitigation stat in the game, fights are 100% scripted so it's just a game simon says, mitigation is 90% passive etc.

Yeah but that's MMO raiding in general FF:ARR especially. Its entire philosophy is 'learn the dance' (Titan anyone). It's the very core of this game. If you take issue with that, then I'm not sure what to say 0.o.

Healers are certainly being checked though. The oppressors check healers...oh yes do they check the healers. And they kind of check the tanks? Albeit it's can you press buttons when you see a cast bar! But it's there...but I'll concede it's a shitty one.

Not if you need to keep the part and head away from each other.

That's just an idea I had after 5 minutes, I'm pretty sure a full team of experienced developers can create a lot of bosses with these kind of mechanics

You could also make time kills where the main target has to die around the same time as the last lesser target of a long train. So, killing the main target the fastest is irrelevant.

Ok so then what is the MT doing? Sitting there casting Clemency and Riot blade combo? Throw tomahawks? If the DPS on the head matters, then he'll be a WAR. If it doesn't, then he's a weird support character for a fight (AKA only a PLD could do that fight optimally). Like I said, it'd work for a single fight and it'd be cool. But a whole tier, eh, not convinced.

[Yorumi]

Yeah but that's MMO raiding in general FF:ARR especially. Its entire philosophy is 'learn the dance' (Titan anyone). It's the very core of this game. If you take issue with that, then I'm not sure what to say 0.o.

I think the problem is the degree to which ARR and really HW takes the scripting and lazy design. I don't expect pure rng but it's taken to such a ridiculous extreme you're pretty much a robot in these fights. Every class is basically a fixed rotation, every boss is a scripted dps check. We're not thinking during a fight we're writing a bot script.

[Reynhart]

If the DPS on the head matters, then he'll be a WAR.

Loot at the second boss from Copperbell normal. DPS doesn't matter but you still need someone to keep aggro on it.
It's also like Cerberus. Only the DPS in belly really matters, anyone can tank the boss itself.
If the boss I think of loses 10% of HP each time a part is killed, so 10 parts to end the fight, and that no tank can bring down this number to 9 parts, then DPSing the head doesn't matter.

If it doesn't, then he's a weird support character for a fight (AKA only a PLD could do that fight optimally).

You'd still need someone to keep aggro and take the hits, and each tank can do it approximately the same. If you have a WAR or a PLD, you'll try to lock the boss in "physical" form, if you have a DRK, you'll lock to "magical" form.

Every class is basically a fixed rotation, every boss is a scripted dps check. We're not thinking during a fight we're writing a bot script.

Like I said in another topic, it could be interesting to have a boss with a cooldown on each of its attack, but that can use randomly any attack that is not on cooldown.

[Reynhart]

Look at all the "git gud" comments on every thread :
What is a good DPS ? Someone who master its rotation so that it can dish enormous amount of damage.
What is a good tank ? Someone who masters its cooldown so that it can dish good amount of damage.
What is a good healer ? Someone who masters its spells so that it can dish good amount of damage.

Isn't something a little bit...off, there ?

[Iromi]

No thanks...heh, if anything we need more variety, IMHO. I'd like to see a support job eventually...