Why so much hate for job/class ideas?

[AlphaSonic]

Numbers can always be altered the essence of the job cannot. If the idea has a great structure but numbers are off, they can always be fixed.

You complain too much but the reality is that SE messed up Astrologian, it seems like 1 of those job ideas posted in the forum, but with no cohesion at all.

Square Enix released Astrologian, why can't we post our ideas without getting insulted? Astrologian already sucks, not because of theme, because of the balance. The only 100% useful card is Balance, useless skills like Collective Unconscious, Stella, Nocturnal Stance... Astrologian is a wannabe WHM/SCH with those stances which their theme (Sun/Moon) are blatant copy of SCH fairies without the extra healing they provide.

Because 90% of these "ideas" are completely broken or off the wall and have absolutely no chance of ever being viable.

Like Astrologian?

[Ashkendor]

Square Enix released Astrologian, why can't we post our ideas without getting insulted? Astrologian already sucks

The irony here kills me.

[AlphaSonic]

The irony here kills me.

Thematic wise I love Astrologian (and the animations I love all of them). But the skill repertoire... It's just a SCH/WHM rehash with some cards and CD's that affect cards. At least when I see some job design posted by users, they don't try to be a wannabe of an ingame class with a different weapon. Of course i'm not demanding that every single ability is different from the other healers, I understand that it needs to have some base compared to other healers. But the part that defines Astro are Cards (Which are underwhelming but I love the concept) and Aspects (Which I hate because they are just WHM/SCH underpowered versions of heals with a thematic that it already exists with SCH).

[Ashkendor]

Thematic wise I love Astrologian (and the animations I love all of them). But the skills repertoire SUCKS. It's just a SCH/WHM rehash with some cards and CD's that affect cards. At least when I see some job design posted by users, they don't try to be a wannabe of an ingame class with a different weapon. Of course i'm not demanding that every single ability is different from the other healers, I understand that it needs to have some base compared to other healers. But the part that defines Astro are Cards (Which are underwhelming but I love the concept) and Aspects (Which I hate because they are just WHM/SCH underpowered versions of heals with a thematic that it already exists with SCH).

I completely agree with you on AST. The card mechanic is fun, but overall I don't think it's useful enough to balance out the watered-down skills. I was referring more to the disconnect between the two statements you made.

"Why can't people post their ideas without getting insulted?"

"Astrologian sucks."

[Lone-wolfe-02]

Because sad bitter people who can't create ideas themselves?.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Because sad bitter people who can't create ideas themselves?.

Why does that argument always pop up? Because you aren't allowed to criticize something without having experience in the thing you're criticizing?

[Kazrah]

Although I had some criticisms regarding the concept threads for Vampire and Beastmaster jobs, I actually like these job creation experiment threads. It shows creativity in a relatively brief period of time while SE goes on about how it takes a year to come up with a new job. It shouldn't be about automatically ruling out a potentially good idea (at least I thought Beastmaster had something), but rather questioning various elements in case some dev looks at the thread and go "hmm, there might be something here in this thread".

Classes and jobs are the lenses through which we see this game, so sometimes it's fun to see someone creating a new perspective by showing off a concept for a new job.

[silentwindfr]

Although I had some criticisms regarding the concept threads for Vampire and Beastmaster jobs, I actually like these job creation experiment threads. It shows creativity in a relatively brief period of time while SE goes on about how it takes a year to come up with a new job. It shouldn't be about automatically ruling out a potentially good idea (at least I thought Beastmaster had something), but rather questioning various elements in case some dev looks at the thread and go "hmm, there might be something here in this thread".

sure, it take about 1 years for create the jobs, in the whole, with animation, a bit of balance and such... concept are easy to create and toss here, but do you really think they don't do this? the trouble with thread about potential jobs is them lack of deepth.

Yoshida have said himself, that for add a jobs they think at what it can bring to the game and what it can bring to the team. make jobs that just a vanity change or overpowered is....well.... other point, concept are concept, the reality of what they can create with them system must be taken in account. jobs like blue mage and beastmaster are nice on paper ingame they will be a poor choice to add, since they are really a pain to add to the game.

the beastmaster will be extremely dependant of the pet they can get. what will happend if the charm a monster too powerfull? or if this monster die? do they will go with the hunter way of WoW? that a lot of question that are important and are questioning a core part of the jobs.
for the blue mage, the jobs identity is to get the spell from the monster, normally you must learn by yourself, but can we do this in ff14 with how we get spell? it will loose it main trait for be added to the game.

the trouble is to balance the jobs with the actual game, not what it was in another game and most of the post create about potential jobs are create about how it was in another game.... that said, nothing forbidde people to continue to post, it can indeed give small idea, but i doubt SE haven't think at what they can't or can add to the game soo far.

[Kazrah]

the trouble is to balance the jobs with the actual game, not what it was in another game and most of the post create about potential jobs are create about how it was in another game.....

To be fair, it's not like SE did any better with balance issues. DRK is close, but still kept behind by players without any tanking experience and graphical effects like Darkside that can lead to disrupting other players in raids. AST still lacks proper healing ability in tighter situations that is now expected of healers in higher-end content, further inconvenienced by the stance which could remedy this being useless due to lack of damage absorption power and not being stackable with any other short-term damage absorption effect.Finally, MCH is still one of the most unwieldy DPS in the game due to the random proc system and only being effective in burst moments in raids as well as how little survivability it gets outside of raids and dungeons due to its lack of suitable defensive cooldowns (and the only job in the game without any sort of self-heal). NIN is the only "new" job that got balanced, and only after being nerfed through the addition of directionals.

As for the inspiration part, devs get job concepts from the same stuff players do: past FF games. Right now, I'm thoroughly convinced that players can create jobs just as well, if not better than SE devs based on the current flaws in the Heavensward jobs. Hopefully devs will learn from these mistakes once 4.0 rolls around.

[Isala]

As for the inspiration part, devs get job concepts from the same stuff players do: past FF games. Right now, I'm thoroughly convinced that players can create jobs just as well, if not better than SE devs based on the current flaws in the Heavensward jobs. Hopefully devs will learn from these mistakes once 4.0 rolls around.

There are so many things they could pull from the vast history of Final Fantasy. XI did, and I truly hope that XIV can create a massively varied job system in this game, because that is what could really set it apart from other MMOs. No other series comes close to the veritable mountain of classes that FF has had over the years. And if XIV can pull that off right, the sky is the limit.