This is the end.

[Amiantos]

-snip-

Can call me toxic all you wish and I'll just laugh. There's a base line that I've seen that can constitute saying some one is under performing. I've leveled my dark knight, nin and working on whm solely off roulette's, dungeons and daily hunt list so I've seen good, bad and average players. I've seen nins who don't put up either Kiss of the Viper or Kiss of the Wasp despite pointing it out or using Huton then doing way less than what most others do as nin. They can play as they want but at the same time if myself and the others agree that Mr. Non Kiss of the Viper/Wasp or Mr. I'm not gonna use Huton is the cause of why everything is going so slow we have the same right to replace him. Especially if it comes to harder content too.

[Isala]

You do not get to decide if someone is underperforming, nor do you get to define underperforming. Putting your self importance aside, everyone pays the same sub, everyone deserves respect. I am so tired of self appointed judges of how long a run should take, how much dps should be done, how others should play their role, etc. you can't see it, but that attitude is a huge driver behind the toxicity being discussed.

I believe the old WoW adage still holds true to this day. Sure, it's your $15 a month. But it's our $45/$105/$345, and we don't want to deal with your inability to play right.

By all means. Fail completely at your job in solo play. But if you go into a group, don't expect people to put up with it. We pay just as much as you do, and you're wasting OUR time and money.

[Xaenith]

You can't really do anything to *fix* a community, it's just a random sample of people who play the game that we all view as the 'community'

There are always gonna be jerks in every game. Don't let a few people being mean bring you down.

[Miste]

I don't agree with everything RiceisNice has posted but mostly they are just elaborating on one of the possible scenarios based on what OP has told us. So they aren't really jumping to conclusions or condoning abuse on other players. They actually said they aren't condoning harassment or bad behavior.

Jerichai all your posts have been pretty good for promoting decency towards other players, but I think you might be misunderstanding Rice.

Some of the things Rice posted was a bit too much assumption but most of it was just pointing out the other side of the story...like from what OP posted it can branch two ways to what happened. Since we have insufficient info to know what really happened.

Scenario 1. The other member in the group outright raged at OP about ballad without asking why or being respectful about it.
This would mean that pretty much the other member is imo in the wrong no matter how OP acted afterwards, they lit the fire with gasoline instead of just starting with a small ember of decently worded questions or suggestions. OP could either get mad back or just say they were trying to help, but either way that kind of treatment was uncalled for since you shouldn't assume someone is deliberately not trying to help the group. They may think they are helping they just don't know something you might know.

Scenario 2. The other member did ask why OP was ballading either nicely or in an indifferent way and OP immediately overreacted and got defensive.
This would be the problem that Rice brought up that might have happened. If this happened OP was imo in the wrong because they overreacted to someone's light critique of their playstyle. So in this case OP lit the fire with gasoline and probably shouldn't have overreacted. You can't just assume someone is asking you a question about what you are doing to make fun of you. They might just been genuinely curious and/or want to help you.

I posted my opinion based on scenario 1. Rice posted their opinion based on scenario 2. Neither of us is correct or incorrect about the OP, we just discussing how people may perceive these scenarios.

I tried to let people know not to immediately rage at players because they aren't doing what you think is best. They may not know what you'd like them to help the group with.

Rice tried to impart the other side of the coin. That if someone asks or even lightly critiques or tries to suggest another way of playing that you shouldn't overreact or get defensive. They may just be trying to help you.

[Noira]

How do you even speed run the newer dungeons ? They have barriers put up that prevents you from making giant pulls. The pulls that people are doing now are not even meduim pulls.

Pulling half a dungeon and wondering things aren't dying super fast (hint: the mobs in HW have higher hp pools). is not a speed run.

And this is coming from someone who loves giant pulls AND dpsing as healer ._.


Anyway to OP just play Foe's for healer if you see them in cleric stance makes dps for us a bit higher. 3k assize ;-;

[Miste]

No "we" don't. Playing as intended does not equate to speed runs. Speed runs are something that some players do, and it would be courteous to request a speed run in DR/DF, but is others don't want to, then it's not a speed run, and not wantingto speed run is not selfish, pushing or bullying others to do it IS.

(No support means: I heal slow, no AoE/buffs as dps

I don't believe in trying to force people to speed run either...but from what I get from what this poster said...they are basically attempting to force people not to speed run by purposefully not using AoE damage abilities and not using DPS buffs even though they know it is good to do so. So it is kinda the pot calling the kettle black now. That's a pretty big double standard there.

I may be misunderstanding but what I get from Asahina is "I know AoE's and DPS buffs are good, but it will make this run go faster, so I won't use them cause I don't want to speed run."

In DF situations unfortunately majority rules. If they didn't want to do a speed run and the rest do then they should politely drop out or ask nicely to be kicked instead of purposefully lowering their DPS. That's just silly and some serious spitefulness going on.

If you are playing a game with other people like in an MMO you really have to be a little bit compromising. Especially if your playstyle/opinion is the minority in the group...you kinda have to either bow out, go with the flow, or attempt to discuss your issue with the rest of the group to come to a mutual agreement or compromise.

If Asahina didn't mean it that way then it's fine, but I don't know how else to interpret what they said.

[Asierid]

[phiore]

mmos always have rude players, unfortunately, but players as rude as in the op seem to be significantly in the minority.

[SpiritTamer]

I've had a few experiences like this. The first time it happened to me I ended up having a panic attack (I have anxiety) and my friends in my FC helped me feel better. I don't let people bother me like that anymore. If people start acting like that, I just leave the duty and spend 30 minutes doing something else. You shouldn't stop playing if you really like the game.

[RiceisNice]

I appreciate people trying to clear things up on my hand but I want to get my words in anyway.

I am not taking anything out of context.

You are infact, taking my words out of context. I don't necessary disagree alot of the things you say, and infact I a do agree with some of the statements, being willing and more considerate in teaching people in DF. The thing is, none of this is present in OP's situation. You're putting your point of view into his scenario (that people should be respectful) and throwing mine out of it and applying to every other circumstance (people need to grow a thicker skin and accept criticism). The matter of fact is, neither of that is happening (people are being overly critical to the point of harassment and not being accepting of criticism) in OP's situation based on what we've been given.

What we have is
>OP plays ballad when it's not needed
>People call him out that it's pointless and lowering his damage
>OP tells them to "dont tell others how to play"
>Specially states that he stopped talking
>Mentions that he turned off ballad at some point
> "All hell breaks loose" and he gets kicked.

All of this has to happen after at least 5 minutes as passed.

I also see this notion from Rice about what is reasonable to expect from players in a roulette group (based on their role), and how that feeds into the vote kick function. Make no mistake, I do think there are many completely valid uses of a vote kick. But I'm seeing some in this thread equate the OP using ballad incorrectly to him stand in a corner picking his nose during a boss fight

Even if he was using ballad incorrectly, people have pointed it out (in a nice way or not) and he effectively told them to "don't tell people what to do". That is usually my personal threshold for not wanting to put up with people in DF (either through vote kicking or straight up leaving) because at that point, they don't particularly care they are slowing down the party, and are probably purposely doing it anyway now that they (now) know it's bad There's so many holes to fill in, that I just cannot side with OP with how little information he's given, and especially how hostile he had gotten to both his party members and to the people in this topic. We don't even know if he actually did turn it off as soon as they mentioned it or right before he got kicked. And the worse of all is, because he mentioned that bolded part, it's a player dispute so unfortunately, GMs really will not take action on it.