Do AST cards feel clunky to anybody else?

[PlumpyMcduff]

.

I feel like the Card System isn't meeting it's potential.


1) it feels awful to drop a card just to apply a Royal Road to the next.

2) it feels lame for Draw's CD to wait for the Card to be cast.

3) it'd feel much better if Spread permitted a 'bonus Draw' or cut the CD of the next Draw down to 15s.

4) Arrow feels very underwhelming (especially AOE Arrow).

5) the range on Royal Road's AOE effect feels terrible.

6) Shuffling & receiving the same card feels depressing.


PROPOSED REDESIGNS:


1) Royal Road now defaults to AOE version, has infinite range, & merely applies to next card cast (doesn't discard your Draw).

2) Spread now additionally reduces the cooldown of next Draw to 15s.

3) [New Ability] Sleight - 60s cooldown: doubles the duration of next card cast (old Royal Road option).

4a) Card potencies increased to to 20% (Balance, & Bole - up from 10%) & 30% (Arrow & Spear - up from 10/20%).

4b) Card durations decreased to 10s (Arrow, Balance, & Bole - down from 15s).

5) Draw cooldown now begins the moment a card is drawn (doesn't wait for cast).

6) [Removed] Royal Road's increased potency effect (potencies passively increased instead).

7) do not let us Shuffle into the same card.

BONUS: potential changes/improvements to Time Dilation (60s cool down, 10s effect?)


The reasoning for some sharp nerfs is in lieu of the fact of all the buffs... please picture these changes taken as a whole, rather than picking them out individually & critiquing them as such.

Also, seriously, Nocturnal Sect needs help.

And while I have your attention, please give MCH some visual improvements (esp. on Gauss Round, Heartbreak, & Wildfire).

[TatoRazzino]

Well, I read everything you said and I won't comment on the changes you proposed; not because they're bad, but because I don't think the system needs a change. Instead, I'll try to tell you how I use everything and maybe you'll see the cards a bit different.
First of all, the cards were never designed to save a group from drowning. If your group doesn't have what it takes to meet a DPS check or a tank check or a healer check without cards, it means they won't do it anyways. The reason is simple: the fights were designed to be beaten with any kind of group, and AST was never meant to be mandatory. So don't expect that the cards are going to pump DPS/Defense/Healing up, directly or indirectly, into an extent that a bad group could be carried by them. Cards are about utility and about reducing DPS loss, not actually increasing your dps out of proportion.

[ArcheDragon]

But if the cards don't provide enough utility and power as to bring weaker groups through dps checks, why bring an ast at all? It's not as strong of a healer as either sch or whm and if the cards aren't very strong then there is no reason for it to exist.

[Seryl199]

But if the cards don't provide enough utility and power as to bring weaker groups through dps checks, why bring an ast at all? It's not as strong of a healer as either sch or whm and if the cards aren't very strong then there is no reason for it to exist.

If DPS aren't meeting DPS checks, that's on the DPS. There's only so much pull a healer has, regardless of class. Every battle was designed to be beatable without the damage input of a healer. If AST is able to carry groups, then it becomes mandatory. They can help a group with cards and maybe some DPS, and if you don't need the stronger heals then AST fits the bill.

[VanEinstein]

If DPS aren't meeting DPS checks, that's on the DPS. There's only so much pull a healer has, regardless of class. Every battle was designed to be beatable without the damage input of a healer. If AST is able to carry groups, then it becomes mandatory. They can help a group with cards and maybe some DPS, and if you don't need the stronger heals then AST fits the bill.

The only trouble with your statement is at the end. The majority of groups need those stronger, reliable heals. This would relegate AST to serving for content only once it has reached farm status and beyond. There's no balance in that. Thankfully we've seen that AST *can* be brought to progression, but it makes things so much more difficult and exasperating for everyone involved.

[TatoRazzino]

People who say that AST is not stronger than SCH in healing have never played SCH or AST. Or suck at both. I played SCH on A1 and I wished I had the AST toolkit to do the required AoE healing. All my SCH friends are having the same issue: if they use Indomitability, they lose one stack they will need for Lustrate, which is basically their only reliable big heal and is also their Oh shit heal. And it's only 600 potency. AST in Nocturnal has a 650 potency heal available all the time and that costs less MP than Adlo (which makes it more useful than Emergency Tactics + Adlo, unless it crits, which is RNG based). Also, AST has Helios, which is the same as a Emergency Tactics + Succor. Stop pretending that SCHs can heal as well as an AST without having to struggle with MP issues AND cooldowns AND stacks management. Is it doable? Yes, but it's harder. AST has an easier time healing than a SCH, even with Eos. If you can't do more as AST than you can do as SCH, then you need to get good.

[TatoRazzino]

The only trouble with your statement is at the end. The majority of groups need those stronger, reliable heals. This would relegate AST to serving for content only once it has reached farm status and beyond. There's no balance in that. Thankfully we've seen that AST *can* be brought to progression, but it makes things so much more difficult and exasperating for everyone involved.

Then the AST sucks. We were doing SCH/WHM and my WHM was struggling, so everything depends on play style. If you can't do it nicely as AST, it means the strategy your group is doing (positioning, cooldown rotation etc.) needs to be changed or you need to get good.

[VanEinstein]

But if the cards don't provide enough utility and power as to bring weaker groups through dps checks, why bring an ast at all? It's not as strong of a healer as either sch or whm and if the cards aren't very strong then there is no reason for it to exist.

This. I'd dare to say that it's widely accepted that AST is the weakest of the three healers, and brings the least to the table. I don't want to say it doesn't have it's own identity, because it does.... but the cards feel entirely disassociated from the healing itself. At least with Scholar , the fairy doesn't have that issue; the fairy ties into both healing and utility. There's also the issue of square trying to allow AST to emulate the 2.0 healers, without being the 2.0 healers.

In my opinion, this approach doesn't bode well for future expansions/additional healing jobs. If square has decided that the only two styles they can think of stem from the WHM and SCH approach, then all future healers will in some way emulate the original two but never be as potent as either, and likely lack their own distinct way of getting the job done just as effectively. From a balance perspective you don't want any one healer to be mandatory, but there's a need for each one to be a solid replacement for the other. At present AST is not. The cards are the distinct feature of the job that was clearly meant to set it apart. One might also say that the sects do that as well, but they don't. They emulate the 2.0 healers with minor changes (ex: front loaded regen (nothing wrong here), and weaker shields that cannot double value (horrible, needs to return to the think tank)). In regards to the cards, nothing about them is helpful enough to warrant dropping a stronger healing partner for. That's not to say they aren't useful at all, but their presence is not missed.

The Spire card for example, is set up to solve a problem that never existed. Until now, Bards have been handling all TP issues in progression (in conjunction of course with any TP assists built into any given job). I would have much less problem with this card if I could apply it to an entire party on demand, that way you might choose to take an AST in a party composition without a Bard or Machinist present. The same could be said for The Ewer. The only job that desperately needs that card is the AST itself, otherwise MP issues have traditionally been handled just fine by the Bard and each jobs own management skills. Once again, if I could only extend this to an entire party on demand, it would fit into that Bardless/Machinistless party idea. I'm not suggesting this be done, rather just trying to illustrate a point. I could go into the other cards as well, but I don't think it's necessary to get the point across.

I feel as though Astrologian suffered from a development crunch. It's as though they were in a hurry and the think tank was running on empty. There are some great ideas, and the flow of the job (at least while in Diurnal Sect) is a joy, but on the whole I agree that something isn't right in Denmark, so to speak.

[TatoRazzino]

But if the cards don't provide enough utility and power as to bring weaker groups through dps checks, why bring an ast at all? It's not as strong of a healer as either sch or whm and if the cards aren't very strong then there is no reason for it to exist.

^ Someone who wants to be carried.

[VanEinstein]

@ TatoRazzino , in regards to your last three posts.

Because the state of game balance revolves around just your perception and experience, right?

Even if your experiences and perception tell you everything to the contrary, you are not without your own bias. The data and testing are in overwhelming opposition to what you're saying. Regardless of whatever state the SCH job is in (and the majority seem happy with it beyond a select few abilities), the quality of the players is always at question, regardless of your composition. Even the strongest healer pairing will have trouble if they are not up to par as players. This being said, have you dared to take into account that it was you who was bad at playing Scholar during A1? No, of course not, right? The fault cannot possibly be with you. You had a bad experience and now you believe the job is the problem. See, there's the difference between what you're saying, and what others are saying about Astrologian. There's enough evidence to back up claims that AST is undeniably in the worst condition among the three healers. You can't say the same for a Scholar.