On the lack of humanity in our community.

[Yoshiyuki]

If anyone remembers me, I'm the AST who made the post giving my feedback about our performance in Alex Savage. Some of the replies encouraged me to share my thoughts here in the future. Thank you for that. I'm making this post for anyone who wants to listen, including the devs. "Avalanches" by IAMX is oddly fitting to accompany my feelings.

A little update on my story: changing to white mage impacted me too negatively. I had to leave my static. I discarded my Esoterics and Ravana canes after doing so. I lost a great deal of patience and understanding from the switch. I lost part of what made me who I am--ultimately, my humanity. The stress made me a liability. What made it worse was that I felt like I couldn't talk about it. I only wanted to be understood by the people around me; I frustrated myself because I knew that my concerns were too deep for them to relate to. I've since declined offers to raid again. No one worth their salt wants an astrologian. I know, if I were to go back to white mage, that resentment would come out again. I'd rather wait for the devs to fix my main job before deciding if I'll quit or not. So now I'm a "casual."

There is a real problem of dehumanization in this game. The endgame community, as it probably is on many servers, and many games, isn't for me. I blame myself for joining it in the first place for the sake of raiding. In many cases I've witnessed, people who were dissatisfied with their real lives took out their issues on others in this game. For them, top-tier gear and efficiency trump the idea that there are real people behind the monitors and televisions. By elevating themselves to this imagined status, they make the gear treadmill their sole concern at the expense of discarding others. Like the new lancer they were rude to for not knowing to ignore the bomb in the second boss in Copperbell Mines normal--they might have canceled their sub, or, worse, continued this cycle by refusing to see others as humans with feelings, all to forget about that poor experience.

I'm not a saint, either. There were too many times when I quantified my experiences as time per tomestones and/or gil, and failed to take other peoples' feelings into consideration. That was wrong of me. There's nothing in my life I feel I must take out on "lesser" players, and yet I did these things anyway. I'm sure there are others who have no real reason to put others down except, "Well, they're doing it wrong. This is the right way." I hope you can also take something away from this post.

I contributed to the gilbuying problem in our game until I realized it, and eventually stopped answering calls for sell runs.

I watched the destruction of friendships, linkshells and free companies over in-game currency, playstyle disputes or job choices (hello astrologians, dark knights, bards and machinists everywhere) and did nothing, or not enough, to stop them from happening.

I neglected to teach willing players because I'd deemed them unworthy of my time when I should have been more understanding. Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after.

On the other end of the spectrum, the non-hardcores who resent the community I was a part of: they make generalizations and group all of those players into one category of unfeeling elitists. "Fight the power," they may be thinking. "They don't want to understand us, so why should we understand them?" You're right. Not everyone deserves that understanding if they aren't willing to give you the same. At the same time, spreading a blanket over everyone in a group and deeming them as others has contributed to countless wars, supremacy groups and bigotry in our world's history. As a less dramatic example, suicides, low self-esteem and poor attitudes are all direct results of gamers feeling ostracized in some way. It isn't fair. It isn't right.

The servers could be shut down tomorrow for some mysterious reason. That sense of superiority (or fighting back against the elites) would die with the game. Where would some of you be then? Forced to look in the mirror at the wasteland that is your life and your choices. That would be torture for you when it shouldn't be.

tl;dr - people have feelings, as I'm sure you do. The emotional genocide in the video game community is staggering. It probably doesn't seem like a big deal until you are personally affected by it. Please don't contribute to it, and if you do, make an effort to do better. Someone on these forums has a quote in their signature by Ernest Hemingway that fits perfectly: "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." Try to remember. Try to understand. Please.

P.S. - Thank you again to GM Eresgha for helping me with an unrelated matter. You were very helpful. You also restored a little more of my faith in this game and the community.

[Ashkendor]

I contributed to the gilbuying problem in our game until I realized it, and eventually stopped answering calls for sell runs.

This in particular bothers me when people say it this way. Sell runs don't contribute to gil buying any more than crafted items and housing do. Don't get me wrong, I like teaching content. The thing is, some people don't want to learn it. They just want to get through it for the title, the pony, whatever, and they'll pay to have you kill things for them while they eat wall and tab out to watch anime. There's nothing wrong with either way of going about it.

As far as your main, if you enjoy AST then play it. If it's truly underperforming as compared to the other two healers (which I believe it is) we should see some adjustments soon. Don't completely write off endgame raiding because of what happened. Remember that right now we're very much undergeared for the content, so yes people are going to be very picky about what classes they take. As time goes on, people will gear up more and it'll create a little more wiggle room in party composition. Just stick with what you like. It's a game. You're supposed to enjoy it.

In any case, I agree with wanting to remind people that there's a person behind every character you run into and they should be treated accordingly. There's assholes everywhere, sure, but there's good people there too.

[Kaedan94]

This in particular bothers me when people say it this way. Sell runs don't contribute to gil buying any more than crafted items and housing do. Don't get me wrong, I like teaching content. The thing is, some people don't want to learn it. They just want to get through it for the title, the pony, whatever, and they'll pay to have you kill things for them while they eat wall and tab out to watch anime. There's nothing wrong with either way of going about it.

No, actually, it does contribute directly to gil-buying, just like extremely overpriced goods in the market do. Unless your price for selling clears is reasonable (I've never seen a reasonable price offered), it does contribute to gil-buying because the only way the people who can't clear it can afford to buy the clear is by buying gil. Same problem with ridiculously priced crafted goods: If you have the money to buy it without buying gil, that most likely means you can make it yourself. So the only people who would need to buy it would be those who can't afford it... and thus buy gil.

[Ashkendor]

No, actually, it does contribute directly to gil-buying, just like extremely overpriced goods in the market do. Unless your price for selling clears is reasonable (I've never seen a reasonable price offered), it does contribute to gil-buying because the only way the people who can't clear it can afford to buy the clear is by buying gil. Same problem with ridiculously priced crafted goods: If you have the money to buy it without buying gil, that most likely means you can make it yourself. So the only people who would need to buy it would be those who can't afford it... and thus buy gil.

Thanks for repeating exactly what I was saying and proving my point. If you don't see how, read it again. "Sell runs don't contribute to gil buying any more than crafted items and housing do." In any case, many of the people that buy sell runs have gil left over from 1.0 (or the cracked materia they had from 1.0) or they're avid crafters.

Buying a sell run does not automatically make you a gil buyer, which seems to be what you're insinuating.

[Sadeej]

I found some comfort in reading this, Thank you. While some may argue this doesn't bare much resemblance, I was reminded of it. There has been some conflict in my FC lately regarding it as a whole and not being 'end game' enough. While I know the response is "well such and such can go find another FC", but when you thought you were on close terms with said person it does hurt a bit when they start putting you and your other FC mates down.

Ultimately I am tired of people putting others down for the way they decide to play the game. And it irks me that said people can't understand how trivial that is.

[YukariOro]

Ok, first of all, I'm going to say one thing that totally contradicts what others are saying. Depression is NOT bad. It's not a four letter word, it's not even a curse word, and it's definitely not this fantasy evil that the Western mental health medical field has been trying to tell us. Depression is a natural human emotion. Just like happiness isn't bad, and sadness isn't something evil, depression isn't bad.

What is bad, is when you don't express your depression appropriately, or try to suppress it, or channel it inappropriately as this OP seems to have been doing. Taking out your frustration on others, treating others badly, because you're frustrated and depressed IS bad, but the emotion is not bad. I say this as someone diagnosed with Bipolar Type II. There are times when I'm playing FFXIV, where I get a mood swing, and suddenly I'm taking everything around me personally. Someone could be busy and not say hello when I say hello, and I start to think, "Oh my god, they all hate me." That's my problem tho, and since I know when I'm in my depressive moods that I overreact, I take precautions and even take 1 or 2 week breaks until I feel better. The one thing I do NOT do, is take out my mood on others. I have no right to treat others badly because I personally feel badly. And I think that is what bugs me the most about this OP, for all they talk about being victimized, they openly admit and most of you seem to have skimmed by the fact that they have abused others. I'm sorry, but two wrongs do not make a right.

I do agree with those who have said the OP needs to take a break. When you start to approach a game like a job and stop having fun, breaks are needed. Sometimes quitting is needed.

And I agree with those who don't understand about the OP being so upset at needing to change jobs for their static. Part of being a good team player is being flexible, and if you can't be flexible enough to adjust to your group's needs, even if that means changing jobs, you're not being a good team player, period. Tanking is not my favorite job in the game, but that hasn't stopped me from working on my PLD, because I am decent at tanking, if not great, and sometimes my fc needs a tank.

As for statics, I was in one on my server for a while with FFXI friends, for the first Coil. Finished turn 5 and people started to lose their tempers, it stopped being so much fun, and I could have gotten angry with them, I could have complained. Yes, some were acting out inappropriately even, but I can't fix other people. So I quietly told them, "Hey, I need a break from raiding, but I'll still be around." I ended up leaving that fc but to this day I'm still on friendly terms with them, because I treated them fairly and behaved myself, even if they weren't themselves behaving.

And my current fc doesn't do statics at all. They're very casual at raiding, though that doesn't mean they don't try the harder content, they do. What they do instead tho, is a rotation system for raiding, where people sign up every week and personally I find it works better, people don't always have to raid every week, especially if they're feeling burnt out and need a break. And someone is almost always available to fill in, for those who do need a break. It works much better I feel than statics, and helps prevent a lot of the burn out I've noticed going on with statics.

Personally, as a FFXI vet myself, I've always tried to treat people politely. I say hi, sometimes chatter, and yes I run into quiet groups, and sometimes I run into real douche bags, and if they're really bad, well I abandon group (though I don't do this very often). I did this recently with a recent Steps run where the tank pulled before we had people on cannons and no one was willing to help with snares or cannons when I kept calling that they needed attention. I could have raged, yeah, I could have pouted, but I want to have fun in a game, so I did something I rarely do, I quietly abandoned and left and went off and did the beastman crafting dailies.

Fact of the matter is, no one can remove your humanity from you in FFXIV unless you allow it. People treat you bad, you don't have to interact with them, you can leave. If you lose your humanity, it's because you made the personal choice to sacrifice your humanity yourself. You lost your humanity because you decided to act inhumane and associate with those who treated others inhumanely, end of story. You're not a victim, although that is how you tried to paint yourself in your original post, so much as an active participant in your decline, imo.

This is why I never have gotten heavily into endgame, not in FFXI, not in WoW, not in SWTOR, not in RIFT, and definitely not in FFXIV. I don't want to destroy my enjoyment of a game by treating it like a duty or job I have to fulfill. And I certainly don't want to ruin it for others by treating it that way. I can still enjoy endgame, though often as a slower pace, with casuals, and I do.

And yes, I'm sorry you had to go through those unpleasant experiences, no one should have to put up with others treating them that way. Just realize you have a choice in who you associate with in the future, and be more picky with those you do play with from now on, make sure they have not only their best interests in mind but yours as well, in whatever game you choose to play.

[Ashkendor]

Ok, first of all, I'm going to say one thing that totally contradicts what others are saying. Depression is NOT bad. It's not a four letter word, it's not even a curse word, and it's definitely not this fantasy evil that the Western mental health medical field has been trying to tell us. Depression is a natural human emotion. Just like happiness isn't bad, and sadness isn't something evil, depression isn't bad.

You're confusing depression (a medical condition) with sadness (an emotion).

[YukariOro]

You're confusing depression (a medical condition) with sadness (an emotion).

So you're saying I'm not feeling an emotion when I feel depressed, and because I have a medical condition that can affect my moods, that I can't feel depressed over other things, or experience the emotion? Just because I have a medical condition that affects my emotions doesn't mean I lack emotion, and specifically that emotion, which is what you are seeming to imply. Therefore, I'm sorry, but your logic is flawed.

Dear gods, calm down.
Pretty much every psychiatrist/psychologist would disagree with you.
Including my own.

Depression is a horrible affliction that can destroy people's lives and take them away.

It is the purest incarnation of 'bad'.

You're completely misunderstanding what I was saying. What you're calling bad is the impact the emotion if not properly dealt with can have. We are talking about two different things entirely. You talking about the effects and actions of someone how someone who is depressed behaves, while I am talking about the trigger, the initial feeling depression, long before any action, good or bad, is taken. Cause and effect; two entirely different things.

I have bipolar type II, which is mainly depression 90% of the time, with maybe 10% hypomania. I spend most of my time depressed, I know very well the negative impact that depression can have on someone as a result, as it has greatly affected and limited my life at times. What you're not understanding about my comment however, is that I'm saying the emotion itself is not bad. How one copes with the emotion, or fails to cope with the emotion, however can be bad. That I definitely am not arguing with, and have experienced it within myself and have worked to adjust and improve.

It's all about coping skills, but labeling something so subjective bad or good, I've found does more harm than good. I used to start feeling bad because I was depressed. How dare I be depressed, I must be a horrid, bad person to feel such an awful emotion, I must get rid of the emotion. Once I grew to accept that it was just an emotion I had to express and deal with and learn to cope with better, that in of itself the emotion wasn't bad, but how I acted because of that emotion that mattered more, well it made a huge difference and I stopped beating myself upside the head because of feeling a so-called negative emotion. What was so much more damaging to me, wasn't the feeling of depression, but the feeling that I should be ashamed for feeling depressed to begin with. I didn't like that and ever since I adopted this approach and outlook on depression, I find feeling depressed much easier to cope with.

Emotions themselves are neutral, neither good nor bad. It's when and how we act out those emotions or don't act them out, that determines how good, bad, or evil they are.

And yes, I'm aware that the Western medical field field views depression as something bad, but I gotta tell you, it was reading up and researching how some Eastern cultures deal with depression and learning how they don't treat the emotion itself as something bad, that changed my impression of depression. Those that view depression in this more neutral way seem to be able to better cope with it at a result and that made me come accept that it was okay to feel depressed sometimes.

Feeling depressed didn't and doesn't make me a bad person, and that was the message I was getting from Western medicine. And that message was that if I was depressed I was doing something bad, and can really wreck havoc on someone's self-esteem, let me tell you. I'm already feeling bad, because I feel depressed, and now I'm being told I'm bad to feel depressed at that, which made me even more depressed. What a double-whammy.

So, just because Western Medicine doesn't agree with my outlook, doesn't make them right. At one point Western medicine insisted bleeding people made them better too. Things change, and Western medicine sometimes is wrong.

Anyhow, arguing whether depression is bad or good was not the original intent of this thread, and I'd hate to see the subject matter get any further off-track. I've had my say, so I'm going to stop talking about depression, good or bad. =)

[Andrea]

I may have only joined the forums recently but lurked for a long time, this is without a doubt one of the best things i have read on this forum in a long time.

People are far too quick to blame one side rather than everyone taking the blame. Being a raider or a hardcore player doesnt make you a asshole or negative person, Nor does being a casual. They will be negative regardless of how they play or the amount they play.

I hope you find what you want in the game again and continue having fun with it.

[Catwho]

OP, thank you for your input. I'm sorry your static treated you that way, and I'm sorry SE has not made AST a viable option for serious endgame raiding.

I played FFXI for a decade. I experienced much of what you've experienced in XIV - the egos, the toxic attitudes, the worst examples of Gabe's Law of Internet Anonimity that could exist in a given community. I realized that as much as I despised that environment, others thrived in it. They welcomed the hatred. They viewed criticism as a challenge to prove wrong, and dished out their hate indiscriminately to anyone whom they perceived was flawed.

At some point, probably when I was unemployed briefly when I was 27, I decided I didn't enjoy that kind of game. At all. If that meant giving up the highest tiers of endgame raiding, then so be it. This is a game, not a job. Any achievements we earn for world first are ultimately meaningless - even our grandkids aren't going to care. So why torture myself?

So I quit endgame when I started graduate school, and vowed to never go back. When 2.0 started, I swore I would only do activities that a carefully chosen group of friends were capable of doing. We're casuals, but we're good. We're slow, but we care about each other. We're still hammering at Turn 7 for people who missed it last year.

I'm much much happier with my current Free Company than I ever was doing a serious endgame grind in XI.