When should I apply Blood for Blood?

[Kimi_Sherbet]

So, after being told that Blood for Blood was a much needed skill by one of my FCs that I'm no longer in, I leveled up Lancer to 34 and applied it to my Ninja. Thing is, I have no idea when I should use it in my rotation. People say I should use it WITH Internal Release and others say I should use them separately. I'm going to give out my rotation and I'd like to know when in that rotation I should use Blood for Blood.

Huton>SE>SF>SE>GS>DE>Mutilate>Blood for Blood>Internal Release>SE>GS>Duality>AE>Suiton>Trick Attack>SE>GS>AE>Kassatsu>Raiton>SE>GS>Armor Crush. Repeat (albeit using AC a bit frequently from this point on.

I'm not looking on how bad my rotation is, so keep anything negative like that out of your response. I'm just looking for when I should apply BFB. Thank you :3

[Nikoshae]

As far as specific-to-Ninja advice goes I'm at a bit of a loss, as mine is only 35 lol ... but I do have a lot of experience with cooldowns as a Bard! When it comes to cooldowns such as Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, Hawk's Eye, et cetera, I'll usually activate one or two with Internal Release, and right before executing a really big attack (i.e. Sidewinder, a Barrage-enhanced Empyreal Arrow, or both!). The latter part of my reason might not be applicable, but Internal Release is a short cooldown in comparison to the other buffs, so weaving it together with, say, Blood for Blood is an easy benefit ... if you're going to be hitting harder why not raise the crit chance for even bigger crits? Internal Release will be back shortly so you can take advantage of it once more.

In my experience a lot of fights wind up giving you only limited amounts of 'all in, the boss is vulnerable' time in between having to dodge AoE's and other ground attacks, so activating both together gives you a maximum benefit while pressing the advantage before having to fall back into just worrying over your rotation while keeping yourself out of harm's way.

Anywho, that's my opinion. Others (in particular Ninja players) may have different viewpoints, though.

[m3eansean]

Ninja here.

Using it along with internal release at the opener is a very good idea. Basic rule of using any buff on ninja is use it whenever it is up and when you can expect a reasonable amount of time to keep "uptime" on the enemy.

So like the above poster mentioned, if you are entering a movement heavy phase, or phase where heavy damage is incoming, hold off on using B4B until after this point.

Lastly, I can't help myself, but your opener. You should begin with Dancing Edge, not Shadowfang. The 20% slashing debuff will apply to not only all your attacks, but the attacks of any tank as well, increasing both yours, and the tanks dps potential

Also, apply your buffs before you apply your DoT's, your DoT's will "snapshot" the dmg buff from IR and B4B, so it will do increased dps as well.

[Kimi_Sherbet]

Sean. Thank you for your input. I have a lot of work to do on my rotation, I guess. Another FC and countless others have told me to put all my dots on as SOON as I start my rotation. I guess this means I'll have to start with Gust Slash then X_X

[m3eansean]

2.0 days, putting up Shadowfang first, was either equal dps or a slight increase over putting dancing edge up first.

Now with HW, they re-tooled a few things, and most theorycrafting agrees that the benefit from Dancing edge outweighs any pre-loading of DoTs at this point.

To be honest, it probably wont be a huge gain or loss to you either way, but if there is no warrior in the group, I always apply DE first myself, then Shadowfang, then Mutilate.

Most other NIN ive spoken to, agree the order of priority when refreshing or starting a battle is:

Huton/Armor Crush > Dancing Edge > Shadowfang > mutilate > aoelian edge

hopefully this helps you a bit.

[Kimi_Sherbet]

So, in a sense, it's really a case by case basis? I'm just trying to read you right is all and as I'm typing this, I pretty much just woke up.

[Solene]

Melee main here, ready to type up an essay for you!

Rather than looking at a specific rotation, instead figure out the most optimal time to use it based on your own button presses.

To start, do some math. B4b lasts 20 seconds. How many moves do you get in 20 seconds? To find this magic number:
20 seconds divided by your global cooldown with Huton applied.

It should be between 8 and 12 moves. You'll probably end up with a decimal point, so you should round down to the whole number to account for server latency. Now, look at the potency of your weapon skills (the ones that actually make your global spin) Ninja has 7 weapon skills with varying potencies:

Shadow Fang: 200 upfront + 240 DoT= 440
Mutilate: 60 upfront + 300 DoT= 360
Aeolian Edge: 320
Armor Crush: 280
Dancing Edge: 260
Gust Slash: 200
Spinning Edge: 150

These are potencies based on combo and positional bonuses, and should always be executed as such.

Now, your DoTs will last 18 and 30 seconds respectively. Technically, if you b4b just before a Shadow Fang, you should be able to fit two into a single timing of b4b, granting you 880 potency. However, this potency can only be achieved if you do not clip the Shadow Fangs applied under b4b at greater than 3 seconds (the server is ticking every 3 seconds) Note that any DoT applied under an active buff will carry the buff's affect even after the buff has ended.

Your next goal should be Mutilate, with 360 potency (again, without it being clipped at greater than 3 seconds.) Find one spot in the b4b window to fit this in.

Aeolian Edge is your 3rd most potent weaponskill, and should also be planned for. However note that based on your global cooldown, this move takes about 6-8 seconds to execute as #3 in its combo chain.

Dancing Edge will last 20 seconds, or the entire b4b window if you execute b4b just before or just after the slashing up, note that this will have to be reapplied within the b4b window if it is executed before the window. (Assuming you have no WAR doing slashing for you.)

Armor Crush will grant you 30 seconds of Huton, making it so 0 Huton refreshes need to happen within the b4b window, if Huton is refreshed before the b4b window at a minimum of 30 seconds remaining. If you have no WAR, I'm sure you've discovered that Armor Crush must go out between 20 and 40 seconds of your remaining Huton time, allowing for your own slashing down without coming critically close to Huton falling off.

Long story short: aim for 1 to 2 Shadow Fangs without clipping within the b4b window. Aim for one Mutilate in the b4b window. Aim for as many Aeolean Edges as you can in the b4b window. If you have no WAR, you must Dancing Edge either immediately before and immediately after the b4b window, or one time during the window.

As far as the sweet point for activating b4b is concerned, note that you can activate b4b just before your global refresh and add precious milliseconds on to the end of the b4b window. Meaning: execute a weaponskill. Wait until the global cooldown is nearly refreshed. Activate b4b. Weaponskill immediately after. The timing on this can be finicky depending on your own internet latency, but the goal is to get b4b out as late as possible in the global cooldown without stopping your global.

As for Internal Release is concerned, there are two times to see the most benefit out of this buff. One, you can apply it while you have every single off global ready, in that many more moves will see the crit rate rather than a simple handful of weaponskills. Secondly, use it before a DoT refresh, notably at the point where both DoT refreshes are lined up. This is because you have many more DoT ticks than weaponskills that will see an increase in crit rate, thus far more chances to output a critical number. Crit is a chance of affecting your DPS, and should never be relied upon. Thus hypothetically you will not lose DPS if you sit on this buff for a few globals.

One final thing to note. Your priority should be thus: Huton > slashing > DoTs. Take it from there!

Good luck!

[Solene]

Crit is a chance of affecting your DPS, and should never be relied upon. Thus hypothetically you will not lose DPS if you sit on this buff for a few globals.

Let me elaborate; I love crit. I live off of crit rate. I am in no way hating on crit. However, one must understand that it is a chance rather than a guarantee, and while crit rate does indeed raise crit chance, one must assume a 0% output when dealing with chances. This concept is also applied to block, parry, evasion, and chance to hit.