Vote-kicked for explaining 1st-timer tactics and having impatients get what's coming

[Gyson]

Not everything has to be perfect. And one guy wanting to jump through all the hoops cleanly for fear of being blamed if it goes wrong otherwise, doesn't make that okay for the other three who need to get to bed before work the following morning. If anything, the amount of up-votes the comment got is probably more reflective of the dissatisfaction players feel, when they're forced to repeat two year old content for the benefit of newcomers, just to gear up at end game.

And yet this is the design of the game, and nobody is forcing anyone to play it. If someone dislikes the design they have the option of finding a game with a different one.

It's a mistake to take one's frustration with the design out on other players who are playing the game as intended. When someone queues for a dungeon they should be aware that it can a) potentially take up to 90 minutes, b) have a team comprised of new players, and c) time is going to be spent explaining encounters to these new people.

None of that is unreasonable. What is unreasonable is the player that expects everyone to race through content just because they made the mistake of signing up for a group activity they clearly don't have the time or patience for. While grinding I prefer speed as much as the next guy, but I always go into these runs prepared for with the expectations I listed above. If things progress much faster than that, then fantastic, but it's the exception, not the rule.

[Leigaon]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow.

You sort of have the right mindset, doing so good until the rest of it. It's not just the tank who sets the pace it's a collaboration of everyone who determines the pace of the fights. The first bottleneck in this scenario though is the tank who begins the process they pull what they feel comfortable with due to their skill, party formation.

If the tank can only pull so much and feel comfortable around it, it's not your job to stress them out. I've had plenty of runs where the tank pulls and I go "I can really heal more..." but they're new, or just getting the kinks worked out in their new rotation. It trickles down, if the tank pulls and the party can hold more then communicate but otherwise if the tank doesn't pull more for whatever reasons they have, the others do not pull ahead. This is how you die or how I let you die.

I got no problem letting a DPS who decided to run ahead and pull, unless the tank has said so which is very very rare, they can fall to the ground and we continue as one big happy family.

Semi-happy. I had a bard pull and die "why did you let me die?!" "well why aren't you in defiance?!" "I'm not a warrior..." "then why you pull? silly goose"

[Eisen-Zorn]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow. Regardless of what you might think, there are 4 ppl in the dungeon. Not just you. The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

Well, if you want to set the flow and you're not a tank, then by all means. However, don't complain when that tank decides to leave you in the clutch because you wanted to take point.

[RedAntares]

Sorry bud, snip...

I'm sorry, but I think you should put yourself on that "me, me, me, mindset" you are talking about.

As for the OP, that happened to me yesterday on Tam-Tara where the DPS wanted a fast run, and started to pull mobs before I could gain hate on them thus they tanking the mob, thankfully the dungeon was a low lvl one and the healer was able to keep everyone alive so things weren't so hectic, but it was really annoying when they can't wait 2 sec for the tank to pull on each mob because they want to complete the dungeon as fast as possible. Let me do my job and I'll let you do yours.

[Billeffingmurray]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow. Regardless of what you might think, there are 4 ppl in the dungeon. Not just you. The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

I'm fine with other people pulling mobs, but let me know you're gonna do it first so I can get some aggro. Most of the time someone else pulls i pick it up np, but If we wipe because you pull and didnt say a word don't look at me.

[Kosmos992k]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow. Regardless of what you might think, there are 4 ppl in the dungeon. Not just you. The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

Sorry, but no, that's wrong. The jobs are structured in such a way that the tank's job is to do the pulls and manage the mobs, and consequently set the pace. A good tank will only pull as much as the party can handle. But the truth is that as such, the tank sets the pace. There is nothing me, me, me about that, it's the nature of the jobs, if you want to tank so much, put your cane down and pick up a sword and shield.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Sorry, but no, that's wrong. The jobs are structured in such a way that the tank's job is to do the pulls and manage the mobs, and consequently set the pace. A good tank will only pull as much as the party can handle. But the truth is that as such, the tank sets the pace. There is nothing me, me, me about that, it's the nature of the jobs, if you want to tank so much, put your cane down and pick up a sword and shield.

Unfortunately you can't do that in a dungeon to restrictions. If I see a tank that is obviously to slow I will pick up whatever I have to fix the problem.

This is why I want more "specs" to the game so we can tank even as a DPS and healer, or DPS as a tank. Multiple specs and talents will help do this.

It's not up to you to decide whether another player is too slow or whatever. If you did that to me, I would not respond well, and I doubt other tanks would either. Attend to your own role and the dungeon will proceed quickly enough.

I don't care about "Roles" I care about "Winning and defeating my enemy."

I will do anything to win, even dishonor my useless titles and roles. That is how I play and fight.

Except this would throw a wrench into the whole duty finder role setup, what would you do if you queue'd current endgame content, and got two dps spec'd tanks, two dps spec'd healers? Sit around for 15 min to vote abandon? Kick someone after 5 min? have someone eat a 30 min penalty?

We need more variety in our Jobs. They are pretty lackluster atm, everyone is pretty much the same.

[Kosmos992k]

Unfortunately you can't do that in a dungeon to restrictions. If I see a tank that is obviously to slow I will pick up whatever I have to fix the problem.

This is why I want more "specs" to the game so we can tank even as a DPS and healer, or DPS as a tank. Multiple specs and talents will help do this.

It's not up to you to decide whether another player is too slow or whatever. If you did that to me, I would not respond well, and I doubt other tanks would either. Attend to your own role and the dungeon will proceed quickly enough.

[Gralna]

Unfortunately you can't do that in a dungeon to restrictions. If I see a tank that is obviously to slow I will pick up whatever I have to fix the problem.

This is why I want more "specs" to the game so we can tank even as a DPS and healer, or DPS as a tank. Multiple specs and talents will help do this.

Except this would throw a wrench into the whole duty finder role setup, what would you do if you queue'd current endgame content, and got two dps spec'd tanks, two dps spec'd healers? Sit around for 15 min to vote abandon? Kick someone after 5 min? have someone eat a 30 min penalty?

[TouchandFeel]

This is why I want more "specs" to the game so we can tank even as a DPS and healer, or DPS as a tank. Multiple specs and talents will help do this.

Even if they added multiple specs to each job that allowed current jobs to spec as a different role, they would still be queueing as that role (ex: a DRG specced as a tank, would still queue as a tank), so the situation would not change, you would still have the basic party make up we have now. If jobs were able to be multiple roles at once (at least farther than swapping tank stance or using cleric stance) it would cause groups to easily become a chaotic mess where everyone is trying to do everything. This is not how the game is structured on its most basic foundations and would not work well without a vast (i.e. complete) revamp.