Vote-kicked for explaining 1st-timer tactics and having impatients get what's coming

[Valenth]

purposefully not entering a fight that you could have, for whatever reason could be seen as harassment to him. Whether the scholar chose the right reason for kicking when he selected offline makes little difference. If he felt your "lack of participation" in the last boss was trolling, thats classed as harassment and he had the right to kick you. If he thought that you weren't trolling and you were AFK, he had the right to kick you. Either way its pretty easy for him to make his case.

I am just replying at this point as its entertaining, but have no issue with you or anything, if we ever meet again in dungeons, I'll happily go through them and have a laugh about it (during the day my keyboards in so I type), but I just don't think anyone either you, nor the scholar done a whole lot wrong, you both done what you felt was right at the time, and I voted the same way

Yeah, I have no qualm with you either, and as evident in other replies I'm making, it's also for entertainment purposes. I mean, gosh, look at it, 18 pages and counting....

Anyhow, he can make his case like that of course, but the logs will show otherwise. Or rather, they will fail to back up said claim. Of course I could have entered the bossfight and I see how it can be seen as harrasment for not doing so. However by the same logic I could also call it 'harrasment' for purposely trying to force me into a fight while I'm not ready, yet am active (in the way of typing/explaining in this case). I wasn't standing around doing literally nothing for minutes. Again, these two can be crossed away against each other and what's left, regardless of intention, is the actual actions taken by your SCH friend, by which SE would (possibly?) follow through on the judgement they make.

I'm guessing SE would say "first try to communicate with others, this situation could have been solved if you had done so and it's the reason the chat-system is in place". After that: "it is forbidden to use the vote-kick feature for kicking people from party, which could have been prevented by communicating in the first place. On top of that, we only have the logs and in there it shows Valenth was indeed actively participating". Yes, picking the wrong option too, as they have nothing else to go by but the action- and chatlogs with intention unable to be measured from that, is against the code of conduct. I'm sure they'd hardly ban someone over something like this in the first place though, at most giving a (friendly) warning.

Now in hindsight of the run, perhaps I should have literally said "please don't pull before I do" in /p as well to make my intentions clear instead of a sarcastic "if you guys don't want me to tank, just say it :P". If so, that will have been my error in communication and I apologise for that.

[Fynlar]

Really tho... you are suggesting every run everywhere should go at a fairly slow pace with everything explained, because someone you once knew hadn't done every dungeon and it might be them?

Way to exaggerate for drama.

The game informs you when someone is new to a dungeon for a reason. If (as the tank) I see the message pop up and the dungeon has an encounter that I think can be problematic to newcomers, I will ask if everyone knows the fight. If someone says they don't (or, another likely scenario is that I will know the person that's new and I entered the dungeon with them, so I *know* that at least someone doesn't know the fight) I will stop to explain.

If you go in at that point and pull anyway, well cool, that's your business. Just don't expect me to cut myself short to save you. That is a clear lack of respect to both myself and the newcomer(s) in question, so what makes you think you deserve any in return?

[Leigaon]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow.

You sort of have the right mindset, doing so good until the rest of it. It's not just the tank who sets the pace it's a collaboration of everyone who determines the pace of the fights. The first bottleneck in this scenario though is the tank who begins the process they pull what they feel comfortable with due to their skill, party formation.

If the tank can only pull so much and feel comfortable around it, it's not your job to stress them out. I've had plenty of runs where the tank pulls and I go "I can really heal more..." but they're new, or just getting the kinks worked out in their new rotation. It trickles down, if the tank pulls and the party can hold more then communicate but otherwise if the tank doesn't pull more for whatever reasons they have, the others do not pull ahead. This is how you die or how I let you die.

I got no problem letting a DPS who decided to run ahead and pull, unless the tank has said so which is very very rare, they can fall to the ground and we continue as one big happy family.

Semi-happy. I had a bard pull and die "why did you let me die?!" "well why aren't you in defiance?!" "I'm not a warrior..." "then why you pull? silly goose"

[Eisen-Zorn]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow. Regardless of what you might think, there are 4 ppl in the dungeon. Not just you. The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

Well, if you want to set the flow and you're not a tank, then by all means. However, don't complain when that tank decides to leave you in the clutch because you wanted to take point.

[RedAntares]

Sorry bud, snip...

I'm sorry, but I think you should put yourself on that "me, me, me, mindset" you are talking about.

As for the OP, that happened to me yesterday on Tam-Tara where the DPS wanted a fast run, and started to pull mobs before I could gain hate on them thus they tanking the mob, thankfully the dungeon was a low lvl one and the healer was able to keep everyone alive so things weren't so hectic, but it was really annoying when they can't wait 2 sec for the tank to pull on each mob because they want to complete the dungeon as fast as possible. Let me do my job and I'll let you do yours.

[Fyce]

purposefully not entering a fight that you could have, for whatever reason could be seen as harassment to him.

Since the SCH didn't wait until the Tank was done typing and initiated the boss fight on his own, his behavior can be seen as rude, impatient and self-entitled as well as performing harassment towards the tank.
Besides, since none of you said anything about the pacing and the fact that the tank explained everything before each boss prior to that, if could be easily understood as, at worse, a "I don't care, explain if you want".

The SCH was the one doing something wrong in the first place. Yes, it caused a backfire because the tank didn't run to fix what the SCH did... but the SCH was the one doing the stupid thing first.
If anything, he was the one worthy of a kick, because without his first move, the party would've succeed.

If two people are involved in the same foolishness, it's the one that started it that should be punished first.

[Billeffingmurray]

Sorry bud, but you're mistaken. The tank does not set the flow. Regardless of what you might think, there are 4 ppl in the dungeon. Not just you. The party sets the flow. If 3 ppl want to you to pull another set of mobs, then do it. If the healer is pulling another mob, it means he knows he can keep you alive. If that happens then you, the tank, shouldn't have this mentality of, "if you want to tank it then go ahead." I'm tired of the "me, me, me" mindset. You're playing an mmo with other ppl. The party sets the flow. If you want to set your own pace, please go player a single player game

I'm fine with other people pulling mobs, but let me know you're gonna do it first so I can get some aggro. Most of the time someone else pulls i pick it up np, but If we wipe because you pull and didnt say a word don't look at me.

[AlexionSkylark]

I main WHM, and was always mad about the rushing tanks. Then I lvled a PLD, was on my first dungeon (AK if I'm not mistaken), and one of the DPS was not only pulling stuff in a rush, he was BRINGING them to me to tank. I started not taking the aggro, and said "could you stop aggroing stuff please?". The healer AND MYSELF were full-decked in AF1 gear, and really struggling to keep up with this forced speedrun.

the reply? "then pull faster, slowpoke".

I then lost my temper. Agree I was a bit jerky when I said "listen here, champ, I'm the tank. THE TANK determines the pace of the run, not you. Healer, if this guy aggros any more groups, let him die. I won't take aggro off him, and will NOT use AoE skills either so don't bother bringing stuff to me."

The DPS died 2 times then left, bitching and calling us noobs. We got another, much nicer DPS in his place, and had a cool, smooth run.

[Dante_V]

Sounds like they were bad players who just abuse the vote kick system. Pulling ahead of the tank is a waste of resources and a general team dps drop. It's not surprising however that this game is filled to the brim with them.

[AsahinaMyLove]

I really hate it when dps or healer try and pull shit for me, that is just total bullshit. The tank sets the flow and the other jobs need to knock that crap off. You did a good think as long as the new person wanted to hear what you had to say. I have seen the reverse where the new player does not want to be told anything. It seems though to me that you were just being the kind of player we want in this game...keep doing what you do and F* those players.

if some I-wanna-be-cool kids do this to me -> I just ignore the other mobs and let them die to teach them a lesson! ;D