Things Getting Too Obnoxious

[fm_fenrir]

The average player (who's actually trying) should be able to hit 85% without hours of research and practice and memorization just to play a game. The players who have that extra skill or effort, still show, but no one has a miserable time of it.

You really don't need that much "research" to play your job well. If you can't play your job at at least 80% of the crunch-heavy munchkin players after playing with your toolbox after a couple weeks, I don't think it's the game that's the problem.

[Fendred]

You really don't need that much "research" to play your job well. If you can't play your job at at least 80% of the crunch-heavy munchkin players after playing with your toolbox after a couple weeks, I don't think it's the game that's the problem.

Except playing at 80% capacity isn't going to down any bosses. Now if they dropped the complexity of the classes down to 80% of their current state, that would actually make a difference.

[Odowla]

Except playing at 80% capacity isn't going to down any bosses. Now if they dropped the complexity of the classes down to 80% of their current state, that would actually make a difference.

80% of their current state wouldnt even be anything.

Every class would be put up dots, then 111111111111 111111111111 11111111111 except the melees which would be the same but with 123 123 123 123 123. That doesnt sound fun at all.

[hallena]

Snip

You're making it sound a lot more complicated than it really is.
SE are just bad at preparing their players for challenging content, dungeons are easy. Classes were stupidly simple. Hard mode trials might aswell not even be a thing. As soon as these players face anything slightly challenging they don't know what to do and instantly go cry about it because there is no middle between easy and hard.
No class in heavensward is hard to play and you don't need to be a super elite players with twitch skills and perfect memory to pull good damage/heal

The last thing i want is classes to play like arm warrior in world of warcraft because their playerbase don't know how to multitask during raid

[RapBreon]

You make the bosses harder, not the classes. Making the classes harder is just bad design in my book. Bad enough we have to fight the boss and our own latency, now we're being forced to fight with the class design too? I'm sorry but that's not hard, that's frustrating.

And meanwhile everyone is complaining about the trainwreck parties and the 'bad' dps, so the small % of super elite players with the twitch skills and perfect memory can be acknowledged as superior? I agree with Linadae, that's bad design. The average player (who's actually trying) should be able to hit 85% without hours of research and practice and memorization just to play a game. The players who have that extra skill or effort, still show, but no one has a miserable time of it.

Aside from party perspective, it's also a matter of not always wanting to be 'challenged' every minute of game play. Put the challenge in the content, not the class, then the player gets to decide when and how much they want to be challenged, not have it forced down their throat permanently.

The problem for me is; unless it's cutting edge progression, I'm now super bored, because my class is boring. This is essentially what it was like in WoW. Bosses were great, but class design was meh. So if I wasn't doing prog, I could mindlessly do my simple rotation and just literally talk useless words over TS to entertain myself until it was time for the good stuff. So it's the inverse of your problem really. I deserve to be having fun too no?

It seems to be a choice about which direction Square wants to take the game. Cater to the more 'dedicated(?)' player-base or the more 'casual' one. Neither good nor bad design, merely a targeting of demographic as the solution to both our problems are mutually exclusive.

Additionally, 'average' players already do about the number you quoted (85%?). Hell if a DRG really wanted, they could do the 2.0 rotation to about a 70-80% effectiveness of a 3.0 DRG. So you still have that option to 'relax' without simplifying the class and gating the fun behind static runs.

Just my 2cents.

[fm_fenrir]

Additionally, 'average' players already do about the number you quoted (85%?). Hell if a DRG really wanted they could do the 2.0 rotation to about a 70-80% effectiveness of a 3.0 DRG.

In fairness, if you're too zealous with your Geirskogul usage, you're kind of stuck with 2.0 DRG for a good bit of each fight.

[Sidra]

I run daily EX just in DF 4-5 times a week, and I can't remember the last time I actually saw a tank die. There is a huge variance in DPS numbers across gear and player skill. But most of the OP is a pretty ridiculous or ludicrously rare complaints. A Summoner doing no AOE? C'mon now - while I can't disagree there is an occasional lol horrific player - most are average, and average SMNs are doing AOE. And complaining about having to move and deal DPS? What?!?...if you want an enemy who doesn't fight back go ham on a dummy. Being a good dps in this game involves learning each encounter and tailoring your dummy rotation accordingly to optimize dps. That's fun, interesting, and by no means a bad thing.

[drmambo1999]

I can definitely see where you are coming from here. Even as BLM things have certainly gotten a bit more stressful in dungeons and primals. I am not sure if I personally view it as all a bad thing, but I do agree things have changed and in some ways gotten a lot more complicated for some classes. I want to build my SMN more but I am now afraid to. XD

I agree that it would be nice to be able to play the game with out having to research your class for hours on end after playing it a certain way for so long, but changes happen in mmos and in a lot of ways they are for the better.

There is always room for improvement though and I would enjoy going back to the days where the tank actually did what tanks are designed to do and not have the DPS suffer the consequences because the tank is playing the job differently for the sake of speed runs or what ever the reason might be.

Mainly people who get called "bad" for playing DPS just "fine" and not "exceptional" is what gets to me.

EDIT: I fully consider the possibility that I just had crap luck in duty finder groups. XD

[Greedalox]

I think the problem you're perceiving is that a class is complicated when played excellently and not that complicated when played averagely. That's good class design if you ask me. You are playing an online game, therefore there is huge variance in player skill. There NEEDS to be ways for players to go above and beyond and there needs to be content that can be done by those who can't perform to the highest of expectations. MOST players can pull out the minimal numbers required for their class in content and that's okay.

What I think you think the problem is is that the deviation from amazing and average or above average is noticeable, but by no means mandatory still unless you're in savage (Which is current end game content). You're comparing yourself to the best of players and assuming that makes you bad. That's not true. You are probably a good player... there are some who are just better and that's okay.

The only exception to this in my opinion is Black Mage. There's not many decent Black Mages and that's a shame. You're either blowing things up or resorting to your 2.0 rotation when things don't go well.

[FoxyAreku]

Raiding might not be for you. Maybe sitting in your FC's front yard hitting a target dummy would be more to your liking.

If there wasn't stuff to interrupt your rotation in fights then what would even be the difficult part of it?