Did the game get too complicated, or am I just an idiot?

[RapBreon]

Oh, I don't disagree with you. They're failing at their jobs. But in Duty Finder content, you kinda have to be prepared for that. You don't know if the person on the other end of that awful DRG is colorblind and has trouble seeing AoEs, so they're more focused on that than their rotation. They could be juggling parental responsibilities (from all I hear, holding a baby and working a PS4 controller's quite the feat). They *could* just not know what they're doing. But you don't really know, so I tend to be generous with people when I'm in DF content. When in a PF group, I'm less generous because I expect people to be performing differently in that case.

We're well within our rights to ask someone to step up (and I do so frequently, especially if I see someone not using AoEs on large pulls--that should be a no-brainer), but we really don't need parsers to do that at all, which was really my only point. What prompted my response generally was your initial use of the word "complain," which suggested (to me at least) something of a condescending attitude when you find yourself in those situations. That may have been on me, though.

as I mentioned above, I've gotten the impression that you might not always be very diplomatic when you find DPS under-performing in DF, but that's just what I'm picking up from word choice and the like on here so it may be misreading.

Nah, it's not - my written tone can take that form. My bad on that one. I'm not as combative as I'm probably appearing; especially not in DF.

Here's an interesting example that just happened to me. I just tried to pug an Alex Sav A1 (because I'm super dumb and had a full inventory the first time I cleared it this week QQQQQQQQQ). Had another DRG (same gear) pulling an odd 100-150 DPS less than me on Faust (twice) and they were second. That pretty much told me the Oppressor's weren't going down. In that situation my only recourse is to consult the parser (the aggro difference isn't measurable enough to determine any kind tangible difference in DPS). And I would have no real other way to determine who the weak DPS was without it. Without a parser how would I even go about telling them they needed to do more damage? Do I sit him down and explain the intricacies of Geirskogul and Blood for Blood timings? Or something more basic like their rotation? Like I wouldn't know where to begin with sitting in-front of the parser for about 30 minutes trying to work out where they're going wrong.

Checks as tight of this (in which diminishing returns on rotational improvements affecting gains in DPS gets crazy), then 'denying' me my parser (bear with the drama) is a bit counterproductive to my goals when 100DPS - that is within their grasp - is like a good 5% off a kill. I still gave it a go to be polite, it went nowhere; no harm no foul.

I never said your posts condoned harassment

Nonononono, I know you didn't it. It was mainly for the observers of our conversation. As perception colours the inner monologue with which we read. I can only imagine how much of a stuck up elitist asshole some people think I am. Not that I care overly, but I felt like being upfront about it. Life's a stage n all.

I think what you're missing is that, essentially, if dicks have "hard evidence," they are more likely to be dicks. It also can push some people that aren't *normally* dicks to behave dickishly because an intense focus on numbers performance sometimes takes the human part of the equation out of things for those that are highly focused on performance. It's not sophistry, that's just part of human attitudes, especially in online spaces and even more especially in online gaming spaces. If you've never really been privy to the levels of vitriol that people in MMOs can spit at their fellow players, you've been pretty lucky, but I've been at this for a long time and I've met some real human scum on games like these.

Hahaha, I'm both a long time MMO and MOBA player. I've seen it all. MMOs - even WoW - have absolutely nothing on MOBAs when it comes to 'interesting behaviour'.

I'll remain fairly unconvinced of this point, it certainly appeals to common sense. But I'm a little more stubborn than that :P.

Presume your statement is axiomatic (as you attempt to sell it) The part a parser plays I would wager is relatively minuscule relative to the far more important forces at work; presumably anonymity/social/internet attitudes in general are more likely to be the root cause. I'd prefer those addressed or curbed rather than denying a basic addition to the game (in which devs themselves presumably use to balance) which would help improve the play of incalculable (felt like being dramatic...again) players who haven't bother to set-up ACT (which can be a pain). LoL's done OK in this regard and they have a far tougher audience to control (essentially rabid animals).

Ostensibly, if everyone performed better, people would be happier right? Potentially, but dickishness (elitism to a silly degree) will persist regardless of the tools provided or denied. I mean, I personally would be happier.

The reason they do this is to keep their hands clean. If they put in an official parser and the community becomes more toxic to some degree or another, it creates a bad impression of the game as a whole that, in some sense, they would then be "condoning." By keeping parsers "officially" unsupported but "unofficially" supported, they can allow players to use them for performance while essentially washing their hands of any effect they have on the community (thankfully in general, the Final Fantasy MMO community has always been less toxic than other similar titles, like WoW--but it still has its problems, such as with the Hunting community).

There are also various other reasons, including that they have to disallow third-party tools because of botting and things of that sort, and it's far easier to say, in the ToS, that all third-party tools are disallowed, than to complicate and categorize, as there are various ways in which programs could be argued to be allowed or not allowed depending on specific functionalities. A blanket statement is easier to enforce and takes load off of the GMing team (which probably isn't very large).

I see the logic, but I have very little sympathy for companies raking in bucket-loads of cash, role-playing Scrooge McDuck.

[RygaenYuui]

Well, whatever's happening here, it's sucking the fun out of the game. It's starting to make me wonder why should I be paying $12 a month for another source of stress in my life. ARE YOU SEEING THIS, SQARE?!

If you're stressing out over this and you're not even LV 60, then I'm not sure how to say this but hitting LV 60 gives you your entire skillset with more moves or abilities that you will probably have to get used to...and then everything afterwards becomes a gear stat numbers game.

And more stress over ant mounds is unhealthy @ best.

[Alahra]

-snip-

I don't go anywhere near MOBAs for fear of the communities--MMOs are more than toxic enough for me sometimes. I still think they're right to be wary of the environment third party tools that "measure" a player can create. While I can appreciate the need for parsers in high end content (Savage, Extremes, etc.) where DPS checks are far more punishing, the addition of an official one to the game as whole would likely cause a shift in attitudes in content where it's just plain not necessary. We already see "top-down" elitism in the more casual content when it comes to things like Tank DPS and Healer DPS sometimes, and I imagine SE just doesn't want to add any more fuel to the fire.

Just because there will be toxicity regardless of whether or not parsers are officially condoned doesn't mean they feel comfortable adding even a little bit of more kindling.

It's also worth noting that I know of several less "hardcore" players that get nervous and uncomfortable if they know they're being parsed, because of what amounts to "stage fright," and they probably aren't the only ones that feel that way. Heck, I even know some that are incredibly competitive that don't like to be parsed. With the current "hush hush" policy in place, you can still get the benefits of parsers (both for gauging your performance and that of others) while not really creating a negative experience for other players in this regard.

[RapBreon]

I don't go anywhere near MOBAs for fear of the communities--MMOs are more than toxic enough for me sometimes. I still think they're right to be wary of the environment third party tools that "measure" a player can create. While I can appreciate the need for parsers in high end content (Savage, Extremes, etc.) where DPS checks are far more punishing, the addition of an official one to the game as whole would likely cause a shift in attitudes in content where it's just plain not necessary. We already see "top-down" elitism in the more casual content when it comes to things like Tank DPS and Healer DPS sometimes, and I imagine SE just doesn't want to add any more fuel to the fire.

Just because there will be toxicity regardless of whether or not parsers are officially condoned doesn't mean they feel comfortable adding even a little bit of more kindling.

It's also worth noting that I know of several less "hardcore" players that get nervous and uncomfortable if they know they're being parsed, because of what amounts to "stage fright," and they probably aren't the only ones that feel that way. Heck, I even know some that are incredibly competitive that don't like to be parsed. With the current "hush hush" policy in place, you can still get the benefits of parsers (both for gauging your performance and that of others) while not really creating a negative experience for other players in this regard.

Fair enough. Guess we shall agree to disagree.

Not much else for me to add. Nothing useful anyway.