[SUGGESTION] LIMIT POINT / MERIT POINT SYSTEM

[Xerius]

The merit point system is one of the few things that I don't miss at all from FFXI. It just turned into congratulations on hitting the top level, if you thought the previous 75 levels were a grind then you're going to love 75+

[Dhex]

Another point to be brought up; rather than focusing on how to implement more dynamic customization - let's talk about what we want customization to do for us as players.

Ideally (for me) they would make each Merit/spec/whatever viable for various encounters/mechanics/group compositions - this would require tailoring some mechanics to certain builds across multiple fights, balancing, and adding enough fights so that any given build does not have a significant advantage over all the rest; additionally if they make the Merit/spec/whatever easily redistributed nobody would be shoe-horned into only doing "one-thing" - game meta is pretty much incontrovertible at this point. Damage damage damage - but shifting some of the dynamics off of gear and grinding your way toward bigger numbers every 3 months would obviously add some depth to the game overall and give a more full realized sense of character ownership - the game would still be revolve around damage and efficiency but players could compensate for play-style or gaps in their group skill level or ability or tailor their static setups towards the content they're doing regularly so they can work better as a team.

Edit:

Additionally - why is it that Yoshi-P & Team rely solely on themselves and in-house testing when balancing fights, Jobs, mechanics? We could really do with a test server and test server feedback section on the forums so that we as a player base had a little bit more input and could show the devs. possible imbalances or oversights in their designs. I think that a lot of the problems with FFXIV come from a limited pool of testers that have a preconceived idea or notions about how & what their playerbase will do. Test servers would go great lengths towards better overall balance.

[FreeLancer4]

So your suggestion for improvement is to not change? You're happy grinding out a single raid and a few dungeons every 3 months for essentially the same thing over and over and over? Will that really hold your interest for three more years?

You don't have anything more compelling to offer towards improvement of the progression system?

Just more of the same status quo? Just give you higher numbers with the same stats every patch without adding any depth to the combat system or game meta - keep on the same repetitive vertical treadmill every few months?


What's the difference between lv60 i170 and lv60 i210 besides number bloat...?

This. If It's expected to have this continue for the foreseeable future of this game then myself and many others are without a doubt going to be jumping ship. Many including myself have complained for all the hype, heavensward has been a little bit more then a letdown to a wide group of players. I am sticking around mostly because I have made a good few friends here and have been a fan of FF for years. However if some interesting changes don't come by atleast 4.0 (I'll try to stick it out with heavensward) then I feel I wont be getting anything more from it. It wouldn't be much more then forced entertainment at that point.

[Pyretta_Blaze]

I for one would welcome a system that would allow me to continue to advance my level capped class/Job outside of armor upgrades.
Armor upgrades are ephemeral anyway so I would enjoy upgrading my character itself even if very slightly.

As it stands my weekly routine is cap Eso, run Alex and done. I'm not ready to smash my face against Savage yet. I've already kitted my alt job out in upgraded Law gear and with Eso and Alex gear on weekly lockout there is nothing else I can do to advance my main job or even 1 sub job.

Don't get me wrong, I still have lots to do in-game with crafting, gathering & leveling DoW/DoM jobs but that isn't the topic at hand. (and they have their own issues...)

Several people in my FC/LSes are already starting to complain about the weekly hamster wheel. That 'new expansion smell' has started to fade.

[OMEGA_HACK]

So here is a novel idea. What if--and stay with me here--what if the game wasn't designed around the necessity to have merits. And let's say that merits served more along the lines of an echo-like buff to content? Or what if in Savage mode raids merits did not work?


I mean, to say that character customization is outright a bad thing, or will just be more grinding, or that people will only pick one "build" and all other players who don't pick said build are bad players, is a pretty bold and somewhat inaccurate statement.

In XI, I played as a DRG and there were a set number of abilities you could learn on each job, one of the main abilities was Angon, players said the best build was to max that ability out so you could increase your DPS, however I did not, I put it into Deep Breathing which enhanced my Wyvern's breath attacks, and low and behold, because I had a gear set build that complimented it I was able to keep up with the other players in my groups in terms of DPS.

The main thing about merits is they should open the door to thinking outside the box in terms of finding new ways to increase or better your role. If you choose to cop-out and follow the herd on what to pick because you cannot think critically--well the only shame for that is on you--not on the system itself.

Now if you don't like the idea of merits for the sake of having to be at the "LP grindwheel" then I offer this to you...what exactly are you doing now in this game? What have you been doing in this game since launch? Have you not been at a gear grindwheel, trading out pieces of gear for the next new shiny? Where is the difference between LP and gear? One quick difference is that LP you grind once, gear you can grind until your whetstone is naught but a pebble. You (hypothetical) speak of the illusion of choice yet this game's gear is the biggest illusion of choice to date...so much so you can literally make the illusion of different gear over gear because only ONE set of gear is optimal, versus with merits there could be a numerous amount of combinations that offer optimal builds.

/Micdrop

[Dhex]

So here is a novel idea-

I agree with you about the first part - second part is whatever that's a matter of implementation rather than function so it's sort of a personal preference on how you garner whatever it is towards customization.

I think you hit all the key issues with a system like this and address them all pretty succinctly - I also agree that the biggest illusion in FFXIV is gear. Item level easily hides the fact that getting new gear every few months is an illusion of growth - numbers get bigger and you feel like you're growing (whoo) - but the only in comparison with older content that is now essentially irrelevant (oh wait..).

Example; I don't go back to Amdapor Keep normal to compare how much stronger I am at lv60 in i190 vs. lv50 in i55 - because it's not really relevant.

This is the issue everyone skirts when clinging to the current system of rigid vertical progression. We don't have a growing expanding game - we have the same "new" shallow end-game every 3~6 months.

[KMFDM_Kid2000]

Limit/merit was a great system in FFXI, and I could see them bringing it here in similar fashion. OP suggestions aren't bad, but let's look at what such a system REALLY is. An extension. A time sink, something to keep players busy for a while until whenever the developers want to release the next thing. It's a way to feed progression. Right now, we've got new things, a new level cap, new ilvl cap, new raids, new continents, a bunch of new, new, new. Limit/Merit didn't come out in FFXI until the 3rd expansion, at a point in time where power had been capped steadily at level 75. Perhaps it was a way to introduce more power without having to rebalance a whole lot? That was my speculation at the time and I think this holds some truth. But I can see them bringing it to 14, and I wouldn't dislike it either, just not right now, it wouldn't feel right.

[OMEGA_HACK]

snip

Oh I agree with you, its not the right time for Merits yet, however all good ideas take time to develop so I was voicing it now to maybe see it in a year or so.

[justinjarjar]

Only problem with this is we all know the bean-counters, whose primary function in life is to suck the life out of life, will determine the "most efficient" skills and the sheep will follow.

I understand that people do jot like that argument, but people like doing the math and figuring out the best. People also like not wanting to deal with the doing the math and just looking for a well informed guide with not only the build but why to build. You can hate on both, but they both enjoy what they are playing.

[Waeksyn]

The purpose for weekly caps is obvious. Slow progress down in the game so that you subscribe longer. Frankly, that is the purpose of each and every feature of the game. SE is running a business after all.

I would much rather have development investment put into accelerating the design and release of new dungeons, raids and story content instead of developing new subscription holding grind fests. We have more than enough of that now. Just ask crafters what they think of the new scrip system.

FFXI was the absolute king of grinding. XP. Merits. HNMs, Relics - My God, Relics - a system that required an entire LS to focus weekly efforts FOR OVER A YEAR to get a weapon for One member (Dynamis).

And that sentiment implies the assumption that everyone has that option.

Reading comprehension must not be your strong point. How can me saying that I want something be interpreted as a belief that everyone has that opinion.